Walt Disney World General
Topic: Four Parks: One Stale World?

#	Author	Message
1	Spirit of 74 Sat 11/1/2008 3:41p	OK from The Place Where Dreams Come True and Magic Lives, especially during The Year(s) of a (two) Million Dreams and coming soon: What Will YOU Celebrate? is the latest marketing/merchandising tagline ... Four Parks One World branding on merchandise and ads. This just continues the marketing message that the individual parks (and their levels of freshness and quality) don't really matter so much as the whole of WDW. Yet after visiting and seeing very little new ... and no new attraction construction (AI Theater nonwithstanding) going on, one must wonder if the shirts and hats and glasses should say 'One Stale World.' Sea World and Universal Studios and Islands of Adventure all have major attractions under construction and others in the pipeline. WDW, which is less than three years away from another milestone B-Day, has ... well ... uhm ... ah ...plenty of unsold DVC inventory either completed (Saratoga Springs) and unsold or under construction (DAK Lodge Villas, Bay Lake Tower, Treehouses at SS) and unsold. It is a whole lot harder for Disney to weather a recession (bordering on depression for many Americans) than Universal or Busch because Disney has over 25,000 rooms and timeshares to fill nightly. In other words, Disney's irresponsible growth since the mid-90s has put it in a very difficult position to get through tough economic times. And with all the cutbacks that started about the time Frank Wells was buried, one must wonder what is left to cut? It all doesn't leave a lot of hope for new and great things in WDW's theme parks in the future at all. But I am sure visionaries like Inoverherheadmeg Crofton, Erin Wallace, Al Weiss, Phil 'Magic Man' Holmes and company can keep the cash flowing while delivering magical WDW vacations to millions. There just isn't much to get excited about when it comes to WDW these days ... and I doubt we're going to see the Imagineering Blue Sky Verandah opening in Adventureland soon ... or perhaps the Imagineering Blue Sky Wonders of the Future pavilion at Epcot ... or the Imagineering Blue Sky Soundstage at The Park Formerly Known as The Disney-MGM Studios or ... you get the idea. Oh, I guess we can all look forward to the new Hall of Presidents coming in spring 2009 ... course they didn't really have much choice in that one, did they? Stale Mountain's redo? Well, you haven't heard much about that one, have you? Neither have I ...
2	MPierce Sat 11/1/2008 4:25p	>> This just continues the marketing message that the individual parks (and their levels of freshness and quality) don't really matter so much as the whole of WDW. << Sadly they have taken that stance. I think they have been relying on their past reputation rather than creating a new high for excellence in the industry. I'm sure they think enough people will respond to their present day offerings as they have in the past. They seem to be more than willing to increase prices while providing less entertainment, with a diminishment in quality. I for one would be willing to overlook the lack of major new rides for the immediate time being, if they would only strive for excellence in maintainence, and cleanliness. >> But I am sure visionaries like Inoverherheadmeg Crofton, Erin Wallace, Al Weiss, Phil 'Magic Man' Holmes and company can keep the cash flowing while delivering magical WDW vacations to millions. << I am Certain that is what they believe. Only time will tell if they are right. I believe their philosophy isn't correct. >> There just isn't much to get excited about when it comes to WDW these days << You my friend or definetly experiencing burn-out right now. Even though you said for the most part you had an enjoyable time. Sometimes when you visit the parks to often it can have a negative effect over all.Don't read me wrong here, your concerns are correct. They have just become more magnified since your visit to HKDL. Hang in there with me for a little while, while I play Freud. While in Hong Kong you experienced that Magical Feeling once again at a Disney Park. You even were border line in love this park even though so many have found it lacking. You even freely admitted that the park was a cookie-cutter pop-out of other parks, but it didn't matter. You still manage to feel that Magic. That has been what seems to continue to sustain WDW for now. Who knows how long people will continue to feel the Magic as they tighten up the purse strings. Only time will tell.
3	DisWorldly Sat 11/1/2008 6:33p	Jim Hill claims that Jay did a survey asking how long they could go without adding any major new attractions at WDW before attendance will drop. It reportedly said 6 years!! I think that with the ever softening economy (recession? depression?), Jay, Al and company need to rethink their priorities. I mean why would a family want to visit all of the new DVCs at WDW if they don't have major new attractions to entertain them? Now is the time for expansion at the parks, in order to keep guests returning. I'm sorry, a new celebration each year just doesn't do the trick for me.
4	Spirit of 74 Sat 11/1/2008 9:56p	<<Sadly they have taken that stance. I think they have been relying on their past reputation rather than creating a new high for excellence in the industry.>> That is definitely the case. It is all about resting on their laurels and living on their reputation in Florida. Hell, how many times have you watched them show footage on commercials or promo DVDs etc ... where you just know it was filmed back in 1993? You know back when they had thin CMs and trees in the MK and near pristine hotel lobbies? <<I'm sure they think enough people will respond to their present day offerings as they have in the past. They seem to be more than willing to increase prices while providing less entertainment, with a diminishment in quality. I for one would be willing to overlook the lack of major new rides for the immediate time being, if they would only strive for excellence in maintainence, and cleanliness.>> Me too. I have to tell you I find it troubling that I can walk through Sea World and the walkways are pristine with no gum splotches or filth from food carts and every landscaped bed is perfectly manicured with trees and flowers (no bags of wood chips thrown around a la Disney). It's amazing how far Disney's standards have dropped and how far Disney will go to ignore or lie about what it is doing to simply improve the bottom line. Maybe they should have thought about that before they added the last 10,000 rooms. Typhoon Lagoon closed last week for what is a very extended five-month closure (and there's rumors that it could well be closed right through spring break) and I get the feeling Disney is relieved it can get by shuttering the place. >> There just isn't much to get excited about when it comes to WDW these days << <<You my friend or definetly experiencing burn-out right now. Even though you said for the most part you had an enjoyable time. Sometimes when you visit the parks to often it can have a negative effect over all.>> I don't really agree. I went six months without visiting WDW, which may not seem like much for most folks but is an eternity for me. I did have an enjoyable time. Absolutely. But again, it was largely the little things (and those aren't what bring most folks to WDW). I am not burned out on WDW. I am burned out on WDW managment's burned earth (and Disney standards) style of operating the place. <<Don't read me wrong here, your concerns are correct. They have just become more magnified since your visit to HKDL. Hang in there with me for a little while, while I play Freud. While in Hong Kong you experienced that Magical Feeling once again at a Disney Park. You even were border line in love this park even though so many have found it lacking. You even freely admitted that the park was a cookie-cutter pop-out of other parks, but it didn't matter. You still manage to feel that Magic. That has been what seems to continue to sustain WDW for now. Who knows how long people will continue to feel the Magic as they tighten up the purse strings. Only time will tell.>> I think you are largely right. I did feel magic in HK. And I certainly felt it in Anaheim. At WDW ... well, I felt a palpable feeling of 'Oh (expletive deleted) things are really not magical here' ... CMs (internationals excepted) were very on edge (as they should be with rumors of impending layoffs). I was yelled at by more than one and I would have complained but didn't feel it was worth my time. The parks felt less crowded (but not empty by any stretch) yet you could tell they weren't being kept as clean as they should have been (DAK was particularly bad). I saw more examples of bad show than I have in a long time from managers/leads in street clothes (something that appears unique to Orlando) to attractions being loaded and unloaded in haphazard ways that resulted in backups and endings being ruined to Halloween decorations in MK already looking faded and old. I bet that many people wouldn't notice or think anything of many of the things I noticed, but that doesn't make my concerns any less valid. It just shows that sadly many people have no idea just how WDW used to be run and that many people are oblivious to the World around them. But again, these are things I didn't experience/notice in either HK or Anaheim, so I do believe that again WDW's management actively tries to put one over on their tourist clientele feeling they just don't know any better. I'm toying with the idea of a long weekend in December at WDW because I like the parks at the holidays, but I also don't feel a strong pull to make it happen.
5	Spirit of 74 Sat 11/1/2008 10:04p	<<Jim Hill claims that Jay did a survey asking how long they could go without adding any major new attractions at WDW before attendance will drop. It reportedly said 6 years!!>> I have no idea if this is true, but when did the last true E-Ticket open in the MK? (1992 for those playing at home) <<I think that with the ever softening economy (recession? depression?), Jay, Al and company need to rethink their priorities. I mean why would a family want to visit all of the new DVCs at WDW if they don't have major new attractions to entertain them?>> Simple. They spent at least $17,000 (???) on a DVC 'investment' ... they are trapped. They are going to WDW no matter what. And Bob, Jay, Al and Co all know this. <<Now is the time for expansion at the parks, in order to keep guests returning. I'm sorry, a new celebration each year just doesn't do the trick for me. >> WHAT WILL YOU CELEBRATE?
6	barboy Sun 11/2/2008 10:43a	///but when did the last true E-Ticket open in the MK? (1992 for those playing at home)/// I'd say Alien Encounter was an 'E'--- not that I liked it so much but just going by its position as the 'centerpiece' to the new Tomorrowland of '95
7	barboy Sun 11/2/2008 10:48a	///Typhoon Lagoon closed last week for what is a very extended five-month closure (and there's rumors that it could well be closed right through spring break)/// If it does stay closed(not because of maintenace/workings) over spring break then call the media because that would be the most compelling indicator of a complete global RECESSION.
8	barboy Sun 11/2/2008 11:01a	///I was yelled at by more than one(cast member)/// What in the world would cause 2 or more CM's to yell at you? I am most curious about this because out of all my trips to the 'World' I've never seen CM's yell out in a nasty way to guests. I've seen disinterest in their roles, sloppiness in dress, a touch of sarcasm in tone and a lack of smiles sometimes but never yelling.
9	Spirit of 74 Sun 11/2/2008 11:51a	<<I'd say Alien Encounter was an 'E'--- not that I liked it so much but just going by its position as the 'centerpiece' to the new Tomorrowland of '95>> I'd disagree. I put it squarely in the 'D' ticket category, although it certainly was worlds better than SGE, which I was subjected to last week and is in awful shape (the cannons don't work right or light up when they fire ... the seats all have mildew and rot on top of them). ///Typhoon Lagoon closed last week for what is a very extended five-month closure (and there's rumors that it could well be closed right through spring break)/// <<If it does stay closed(not because of maintenace/workings) over spring break then call the media because that would be the most compelling indicator of a complete global RECESSION.>> Well, Disney would never say that's why it was staying closed. They'd just say the rehab work was taking longer or they'd even spin it that they were doing some extra magic ... like adding a new churro hut! <<What in the world would cause 2 or more CM's to yell at you? >> My spirited reputation, perhaps? (that was a joke for those of you who lack the sense of humor). <<I am most curious about this because out of all my trips to the 'World' I've never seen CM's yell out in a nasty way to guests. I've seen disinterest in their roles, sloppiness in dress, a touch of sarcasm in tone and a lack of smiles sometimes but never yelling.>> Perhaps, yell wasn't the right term ... bark might be better. In the queue for Buzz where the FP and standby meet, I had a 20-something CM bark at me asking where my party ended. I didn't hear him the first time he asked as it was loud and he wasn't facing me. And he responded by yelling (yeah, that is the right word, scream might be another good word) WHO?!?, WHO?!??!, WHO??!? ... I felt like telling him to go (blank) himself. Then on the same attraction, different CM, the dude yelled at everyone to GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT as the Omnimovers reached unload. No, he wasn't in some lame character either. I also got yelled at on Dinosaur when my sunglasses (not the cheap Dollar Store variety either, but the few hundred dollar designer deal) got entangled in the webbing of the pouches to store your items. I told the CMs of the problem and instead of shining their flashlights on the problem, they looked clueless and ordered me to get out ... I refused and we wound up riding again (sorry to the people trapped on my right!) ... then the woman next to me shown her cell phone light and I was immediately able to correct the problem. I have the feeling they would have just had me ride all day until close before actually attempting to solve the problem. There was just a whole lot of nasty, short tempered, unmagical CMs ...they were the minority by far, but it only takes one to ruin a visit and I had far more than one nasty encounter. Hell, my first CM encounter set the tone when I arrived at the Beach Club to meet friends for ice cream at Beaches and Cream and was told 'you can't park here.' I said I was dining there and was told 'sorry, we restrict parking from time to time' ... the lot was empty btw and he had a clipboard with 'restricted parking until No. 9th -- end of Food and Wine Fest -- on it' ... so I asked him if they were not allowing anyone to dine, shop or visit there and he told me I could park at EPCOT or the Disney-MGM Studios (someone should tell him that park no longer exists) ... I then explained that would entail me paying $12 to park (left out the AP detail) and he was quite beligerent and ordered me to turn around ... so I did ... and left, went to the Boardwalk and parked without difficulty and decided to get ice cream at the Dolphin instead since Disney did nothing to earn a penny of my business ... oh and then I left my car in their near empty lot and went to Epcot for the evening! It did set the tone and not in a good way.
10	MPierce Sun 11/2/2008 12:21p	>> Simple. They spent at least $17,000 (???) on a DVC 'investment' ... they are trapped. They are going to WDW no matter what. And Bob, Jay, Al and Co all know this. << That is probably true for the majority of people, but I feel there will be some fallout from the slow economy. The poor folks that lose their jobs won't be able to afford to make the trip, and sadly some might not even be able to afford their maintainence fees. I do not feel sales in the DVC can maintain a brisk pace. With Hedge Funds, and Speculators allowed such a free hand in the market, recovery will be slow. That is way to much money for a long term investment with such an uncertain economic future. Demand will slow down while they still have so many new units to offer.

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