Disney Animated Films
Topic: Up is a box office bonanza!

#	Author	Message
31	skinnerbox Thu 6/18/2009 9:01a	<<The Usual Suspect has gone AWOL since post #9 back on June 6.>> I'm assuming you're referring in part to me. Hey, here's a piece of honesty for you... UP is doing way better than I originally thought it would! I knew it would be successful (and even stated as much months ago in other threads) because of pre-opening "water cooler talk" in Emeryville. I'm just surprised it's doing as well as it is, given the economic downturn. That being said... a little reality still needs to be thrown on all the Pixar cheerleading. (Yes, I've been a huge fan since the eighties because of friends who worked for Lucas, but the Pixar-can-do-no-wrong chanting does get tiresome.) Box office receipts are all well and good. High returns are indeed the goal, especially internationally, since it's typically a bigger market than domestic. Rat's foreign box was outstanding (over $414 million) whereas WALL*E did 25% less (about $310 million). It will be interesting to see how well UP does internationally. But if numbers is the game you wish to play, then look at the aftermarket, which is what really drives Disney's profit machine, especially toys. UP like WALL*E is sorely lacking in this department. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why sequels are being made of Toy Story, Cars, and now Monsters. It's all about pre-sold franchises which do gangbuster business in the aftermarket. And these three film franchises are HUGE revenue generators regarding toys. Personally, I'd rather have compelling films with unique stories that weren't required to easily lend themselves to cheap toys manufactured in China. But Disney is in the business to generate as much profit as possible, and the aftermarket is what mostly drives their decision making regarding production. It will be interesting to see what happens to Pixar film quality in future films that were developed AFTER the acquisition back in 2006. Technically, TS3 would fall into this category, but it's not an original starting-from-scratch character development. None of the current films in production can be classified this way. Either they were conceived of before the acquisition (UP, newt, and Bow/Bear), or they're part of an existing franchise (TS3, Cars 2, and Monsters 2). So it looks like we'll have to wait until John Carter before having a sense of what Pixar's production process will be with original characters, post-acquisition. People keep claiming that Disney is "hands off" with regard to Pixar, but I don't believe it for a second.
32	DlandDug Thu 6/18/2009 1:47p	>>Hey, here's a piece of honesty for you...<< I certainly do appreciate the candor. I am nonplussed at the argument that follows (about after market), however. It is not so much moving the goalposts as moving the whole game to different playing field. >>UP is doing way better than I originally thought it would! I knew it would be successful...<< Ah, there's the discuaaion I thought we were having. But I seem to recall that the basic thesis (stated both last year about WALL-E and this year about UP) was two-fold: Pixar's films were in a revenue decline (which would lead Disney to take away their autonomy), and that future films could never aspire to the revenues of Finding Nemo (never mind that it seems a bit unfair to choose a box office phenom as a benchmark). WALL-E definitively disproved the first thesis, and UP now threatens the second. So we now are informed that it is really the after market that is driving the dynamic between Pixar and Disney. >>... a little reality still needs to be thrown on all the Pixar cheerleading. (Yes, I've been a huge fan since the eighties because of friends who worked for Lucas, but the Pixar-can-do-no-wrong chanting does get tiresome.)<< No cheerleader here, although I am one of the many, many unabashed fans sitting in the stadium. What can I say-- I respond favorably to well made films. (P.S. The Pixar-is-heading-for-a-mighty-big-fall chanting also gets tiresome.) >>Box office receipts are all well and good.<< Apparently not anymore (as we will see when we read on)... >>High returns are indeed the goal, especially internationally, since it's typically a bigger market than domestic. Rat's foreign box was outstanding (over $414 million) whereas WALL*E did 25% less (about $310 million). It will be interesting to see how well UP does internationally.<< Yes, yes it will. >>But if numbers is the game you wish to play...<< That's not the game, it's the name of the thread. Box office. We discuss box office numbers here. >>But if numbers is the game you wish to play then look at the aftermarket, which is what really drives Disney's profit machine, especially toys.<< Which would be well and good to discuss in a thread about after market. Or total profit. Or anything other than box office. >>It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why sequels are being made of Toy Story, Cars, and now Monsters.<< Uh oh. Hope this doesn't go where I think it's going... >>It's all about pre-sold franchises which do gangbuster business in the aftermarket...<< Oh dear, it has gone off on a tangent. OK, I'll bite. Toy Story, you bet. Cars, ABSOLUTELY. (wish I had bigger caps for that one!) Monsters, Inc...? Really? Every kid in America has a plush Sully and a Monstropolis Play Set? I guess I missed that one. >>Personally, I'd rather have compelling films with unique stories that weren't required to easily lend themselves to cheap toys manufactured in China.<< But these are not mutually exclusive. >>But Disney is in the business to generate as much profit as possible, and the aftermarket is what mostly drives their decision making regarding production.<< I have no idea whether this is true or not. If so, then it is a good thing they aren't making the decisions for Pixar. You know, Pixar, who makes those compelling films with unique stories about rats who want to be gourmet cooks, and lonely robots who fall in love, and old men who tie balloons to their house and fly away? >>It will be interesting to see what happens to Pixar film quality in future films that were developed AFTER the acquisition back in 2006... People keep claiming that Disney is "hands off" with regard to Pixar, but I don't believe it for a second.<< All well and good, but just how far afield does this go from a discussion of UP's box office? Pretty far. Interesting.
33	skinnerbox Thu 6/18/2009 2:02p	<<If so, then it is a good thing they aren't making the decisions for Pixar.>> You don't know that. Nobody but the top executives knows that. Just because this PR claim has been made doesn't mean it's true. Most fanboys believe that Lasseter has decision making power regarding WDI and the parks, just because he has the fancy pants title of "Principle Creative Advisor." Truth is, he doesn't. Just ask leemac. <<You know, Pixar, who makes those compelling films with unique stories about rats who want to be gourmet cooks, and lonely robots who fall in love, and old men who tie balloons to their house and fly away?>> All of which were into production before Pixar's acquisition by Disney. These films were conceived by an independent Pixar, post Disney contract. Cars was the last film done in conjunction with Disney; Rat, WALL*E, and UP were originally developed outside of that agreement to be distributed by some other company. Get back to me when Pixar releases their next film with new and original characters that were developed AFTER the acquisition, hopefully in 2014.
34	DlandDug Thu 6/18/2009 2:20p	>><<If so, then it is a good thing they aren't making the decisions for Pixar.>> You don't know that.<< I am genuinely sorry that my sarcasm on that one wasn't more evident. I just hate to use emoticons-- and there aren't any that truly represent sarcasm. >>Get back to me when Pixar releases their next film with new and original characters that were developed AFTER the acquisition, hopefully in 2014.<< Will do. And if you want to discuss after market (which is a fascinating topic, and I mean that sincerely) I've started a separate thread.
35	DlandDug Thu 6/18/2009 2:20p	(P.S. And about UP. It is a box office bonanza, no?)
36	DlandDug Thu 6/18/2009 2:21p	>>Most fanboys believe that Lasseter has decision making power regarding WDI and the parks, just because he has the fancy pants title of "Principle Creative Advisor." Truth is, he doesn't. Just ask leemac.<< Just wondering... what is leemac's fancy pants title?
37	alexbook Thu 6/18/2009 2:23p	I always enjoy meaningless lists. Did you know that "Up" now has Disney's 18th highest domestic box office receipts? The Top 20: PotC: Dead Man's Chest. Finding Nemo. The Lion King. PotC: At World's End. PotC: The Curse of the Black Pearl. Sixth Sense. The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. The Incredibles. Monsters, Inc. Toy Story 2. Cars. Signs. WALL-E. National Treasure: Book of Secrets. Aladdin. Ratatouille. Armageddon. Up. Pearl Harbor. Toy Story.
38	leemac Thu 6/18/2009 3:27p	<<Just wondering... what is leemac's fancy pants title?>> Senior Executive Senior Vice-President, Senior Chief Creative Executive, Creative Development, NIP (Nothing In Particular). I kid you not - I currently have four different business cards with four different titles (each at least 8 words in length) that I have to use in particular circumstances. I'd happily be called Gopher to be honest. The Company gets way too hung up on job titles. They are meaningless without power - ask John L about that. :-)
39	ADMIN Thu 6/18/2009 3:31p	Message removed by an administrator. Click here for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.
40	DlandDug Thu 6/18/2009 3:52p	As PREDICTED here previously, UP has now passed the box office total of Monsters vs. Aliens. UP, in its fourth week, is poised to pass the $200 million mark before this weekend's figures are in.

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