Disney Animated Films
Topic: Up is a box office bonanza!

#	Author	Message
41	Jim in Merced CA Thu 6/18/2009 3:53p	By the way, I didn't realize that Wall-E, Ratatouille and UP were originally developed for another company. Was the development of those films during the time when Disney and Pixar were going to break up?
42	DlandDug Thu 6/18/2009 3:56p	All Pixar films were developed by Pixar. The distribution for their initial output was by Disney. There were other "suitors" when it looked like a new agreement was in jeopardy, but Pixar didn't ever actually develop films for other companies.
43	Mr X Thu 6/18/2009 6:20p	***Box office receipts are all well and good. High returns are indeed the goal, especially internationally, since it's typically a bigger market than domestic. Rat's foreign box was outstanding (over $414 million) whereas WALL*E did 25% less (about $310 million). It will be interesting to see how well UP does internationally.*** Well, over here in Japan the buzz is huge. I've had several people mention it to me already out of the blue, and it's being talked up on television etc., as well. Now, this from a place where hardly anyone had even HEARD of Wall-E, and the last "big" Pixar film was probably Mr. Incredible (I don't recall anyone discussing Rat or Cars whatsoever either, and I was going crazy trying to find ANYONE to chat about regarding Wall-E that's for sure!). So, we shall see. Obviously my observations could mean nothing at all.
44	Mr X Thu 6/18/2009 6:25p	***I just hate to use emoticons-- and there aren't any that truly represent sarcasm.*** I saw one once that had the word sarcasm, and it was dripping (get it?). :D
45	skinnerbox Fri 6/19/2009 8:35a	<<The distribution for their initial output was by Disney. There were other "suitors" when it looked like a new agreement was in jeopardy, but Pixar didn't ever actually develop films for other companies.>> Actually, Pixar did develop the films with other distribution companies in mind other than Disney. Those three films were developed without Disney's input because the contract obligations ended with Cars. Rat, WALL*E, and UP signaled the beginning of Pixar without Disney hovering overhead. Disney completely screwed them over on TS2 by refusing to include it in the count of five feature films required per the contract. And by the time Nemo was released, the relationship between Jobs (the Pixar majority shareholder) and Eisner was toasted; Eisner stubbornly refused to give Pixar what they wanted in renegotiating the contract, which is why Pixar was wooing other studios for distribution rights. If you honestly think Jobs was going to sign up with Disney for round two with Eisner still at the helm, think again. Pixar rightfully wanted a bigger piece of the pie and Eisner refused to budge. Truth is, Pixar did not need Disney as much as Disney needed Pixar. Disney Feature Animation was a gigantic MESS and Pixar was making bucks hand over fist. Even with Disney taking almost half of the box for over ten years, Pixar had over a BILLION dollars in the bank when Disney acquired them in 2006. Doesn't sound to me like Pixar desperately needed Disney to hang on. In some ways, I'm sorry Pixar sold out to Disney. Because we're still seeing films that were conceived of and developed primarily before the acquisition, it's too soon to tell what effect, if any, Disney's acquisition of Pixar will have on the studio, down the road. With rumors of Dr. Ed taking over the helm of Walt Disney Studios from Dick Cook, Pixar seems more and more removed every year from the small Bay Area studio it once was. Some companies can grow into large organizations successfully, others crash and burn. I feel it's still way too soon to tell which category will apply to Pixar.
46	cheesybaby Fri 6/19/2009 9:25a	<<Disney completely screwed them over on TS2 by refusing to include it in the count of five feature films required per the contract.>> Well, yes and no. Under the terms of the contract signed by both Disney and Pixar, TS2 was not included in the five feature films required. The contract specifically stated in advance that sequels were not included in the "five films." Whether this is fair or justified is a different discussion - the point is that this was NOT a "loophole" or a "gotcha" or a result of any deceit/trickery by Eisner or anyone else. It was an explicit and major part of the contract which Pixar willingly signed. What contributed greatly to the "bad blood" between Jobs and Eisner were the personalities involved and a reported tone of gloating by Eisner. I agree with all the points of post 45, except for the context regarding this point. Within the Disney fan community the story has "evolved" to include small and large hints of deceit or "cheating" by Eisner regarding the Pixar sequels, and this is a misrepresentation which just gets bigger and bigger.
47	utahjosh Fri 6/19/2009 9:37a	I think the confusion over Toy Stoy 2's part of the contract is that sequels distributed by Disney at that time were generally direct-to-dvd, so Toy Story 2 wouldn't count toward the 5-theatrical-picture-deal. My guess is that Toy Story 2 was decided to be a theatrical release after the contract was signed.
48	DlandDug Fri 6/19/2009 12:02p	Toy Story 2 was developed as a direct-to-vid, but enthusiastic initial response prompted the decision to give it a theatrical release.
49	Jim in Merced CA Fri 6/19/2009 12:06p	Let's just say that the negotiations over 'Toy Story 2' could have been handled better -- by Eisner and Jobs. If Toy Story 2 were just some kind of phoned-in, direct-to-video piece of junk, Eisner might have had a point. Thing is, the movie was a blockbuster and did huge numbers.
50	Mr X Fri 6/19/2009 1:01p	***I think the confusion over Toy Stoy 2's part of the contract is that sequels distributed by Disney at that time were generally direct-to-dvd, so Toy Story 2 wouldn't count toward the 5-theatrical-picture-deal. My guess is that Toy Story 2 was decided to be a theatrical release after the contract was signed.*** Honestly I'm with Disney on this particular point (assuming that the contract did indeed read "sequels don't count"). It was up to Pixar to include little details like that BEFORE signing the thing (a "blockbuster" clause or something). After all, even though Disney might have been churning out putrid garbage on videotape and calling it "sequels", it's not as though we'd never seen huge, blockbuster sequels before and the kind of money they are capable of generating. The Empire Strikes Back anyone? Perhaps they just assumed that an animation sequel would never work. But if so, I don't know why they'd make such an assumption (TS2 obviously worked great). No, I get the impression that Pixar was anxious (desperate?) to get signed up with Disney, can't blame em, and signed an unfavorable contract because they didn't want any trouble. Then, when things worked out in their favor, they tried to demand more.

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