World Events
Topic: Okay, I'll admit that reform seems to have failed

#	Author	Message
1	Mr X Sat 10/31/2009 7:08a	I'm so disappointed. Pelosi came up WAY short. The most shocking part is for the 2% of Americans that MIGHT get access to a public option, their premiums would be COMPARABLE or worse than the current conglomerates charge. Watching interviews with Anthony Weiner, he's putting on his "Party Face" but the guy is bummed and he has given up. And thus, so have I. I'll be a health care refugee in Japan til I die, I guess. RIP for another 20 years (if they're lucky down the road, and have less politicians in the pockets of big business at that point, somehow). :(
2	WilliamK99 Sat 10/31/2009 7:37a	Until we change the very fudnamentals of how our Government is elected, and how much influence lobbyists have we will never have real change in America. Most of our politicans are tied to their respective lobbyists whom hold their souls.... They vote the way their biggest donors want them to vote. I am fairly certain if you look at the donations those who were going to vote no had huge donations from the Insurance lobby... Until we as a people do something to cripple lobbyists, we will forever be slave to whatever they decide is best for our country.... America is no longer the long for you and me, it is the land of big business and big money. The sooner we as Americans wake up to this fact, the sonner we can get true and genuine change in our country. This is not a slam on Democrats or Republicans as both sides have sold their souls already, this is a slam on business as usual in Washington DC....
3	Mr X Sat 10/31/2009 7:49a	I couldn't agree with you more.
4	ecdc Sat 10/31/2009 9:23a	It's a start. It's not perfect, but it gets the foot in the door to slowly roll back the power of the insurance companies.
5	Darkbeer Sat 10/31/2009 9:33a	As more info like this gets out, I doubt it will pass... http://biggovernment.com/2009/...re-23042 >>The health care bill recently unveiled by Speaker Nancy Pelosi is over 1,900 pages for a reason. It is much easier to dispense goodies to favored interest groups if they are surrounded by a lot of legislative legalese. For example, check out this juicy morsel to the trial lawyers (page 1431-1433 of the bill): Section 2531, entitled “Medical Liability Alternatives,” establishes an incentive program for states to adopt and implement alternatives to medical liability litigation. [But]…… a state is not eligible for the incentive payments if that state puts a law on the books that limits attorneys’ fees or imposes caps on damages. So, you can’t try to seek alternatives to lawsuits if you’ve actually done something to implement alternatives to lawsuits. Brilliant! The trial lawyers must be very happy today!<< And here is an interesting quote from Former Labor Secretary Robert Reich writing in the American Prospect dated October 26th... >>While health reform, if done right, can help American families stay afloat in the economy, most Americans will not see any appreciable decline in the cost of health insurance nor clear improvement in the efficiency or quality of the health care they receive, and those who will benefit from the bill won't see it for several years. That's partly a result of Obama's sharpest break from Clinton—whose ambitious plan drew immediate fire from Big Pharma, the American Medical Association, and health insurers: The Obama White House bought off the medical-industrial complex by promising it fatter profits, bolstered by tens of millions of new paying customers. That and other deals cut with industry—including promises to Big Pharma that Medicare wouldn't use its bargaining clout to reduce drug prices, to the AMA that doctors wouldn't have to face larger cuts in Medicare reimbursement rates, and to private insurers that the White House wouldn't fight hard for a public insurance option—will make the resulting reforms far more costly. These extra costs will be borne by those Americans who will be required to buy insurance but won't qualify for federal assistance, along with Medicare beneficiaries who will be paying more and receiving less. These people may not know they're indirectly paying the costs of buying off these industries, but they'll know they're getting shafted (Republicans will be sure to make them aware, even though the GOP has a much longer record of shafting the middle class for the benefit of big business). It's possible that Obama can pivot off a health-care victory and launch some new initiatives that palpably and quickly spur job growth. The worry is that there aren't any—at least none that can work fast enough to reverse the tide of unemployment before the midterm elections. Fiddles such as a new jobs tax credit can help, but they won't make much of a dent. Even with a larger stimulus, a jobs recovery would still be far off. The tangible benefits of health-care reform are likely to be so elusive in the meantime that the public may become easy prey for demagogues on the right who blame Democrats for the insecurities that bedevil the nation next November. If Obama and the Democrats lose Congress in the midterm elections, which is not a small possibility, it will be because the president learned only the most superficial lesson of the Clinton years. Health-care reform is critically important. But when one out of six Americans is unemployed or underemployed, getting the nation back to work is more so. <<
6	ChurroMonster Sat 10/31/2009 10:40a	How do we weaken the power of lobbyists? Limit all elected officials to ONE term. Then they will focus on their jobs rather than worrying about making the most money they can for their re-election campaigns. We need to end the lure of elected leadership as a lucrative career choice. Only then do we get leaders who work for the common good rather than lining their pockets with lobbyists' cash.
7	ecdc Sat 10/31/2009 10:51a	>>We need to end the lure of elected leadership as a lucrative career choice. Only then do we get leaders who work for the common good rather than lining their pockets with lobbyists' cash.<< I'm not convinced that will solve the problem either. Plenty of West Wing officials resign after just two years of service, giving way to lucrative offers from lobbying firms, law firms, or think tanks. Our appointed and elected officials are certainly mindful of that. I'd worry that too many people would be more concerned with getting recognized and making a big splash during their one term to attract the attention of these big firms than by actually getting anything done. I think the solution is more robust campaign finance laws, and stringent lobbyist laws. But I'm not sure anything will work at this point. There will always be loopholes and ways around it.
8	gadzuux Sat 10/31/2009 12:07p	>> And here is an interesting quote from Former Labor Secretary Robert Reich writing in the American Prospect dated October 26th... << Well DB, you finally did it. You quoted a source that I respect, and agree with. This bill is window dressing for real health care reform. It carefully keeps the money funnelling into the same pockets, prevents actual cost savings (a real opportunity lost - here and now), and includes a "public option" that has been so eviscerated that it's certain doom is guaranteed, but has only been included for semantics, so politicians can make sweeping claims in stump speeches. >> It's a start. It's not perfect, but it gets the foot in the door to slowly roll back the power of the insurance companies. << I'd like to think so, and they'll be a lot of punditry in the upcoming days that will help to inform my opinions. So we'll see, but as for now I remain unconvinced.
9	Mr X Sat 10/31/2009 4:03p	***It's a start. It's not perfect, but it gets the foot in the door to slowly roll back the power of the insurance companies.*** That's sounds too much like the progressive party line right now, and they sound about as truly convinced as you do. HOW exactly will it roll back the power of the conglomerates even a little bit if it is small, toothless, and expensive to participate in even if you qualify? That's like saying opening a french fry stand is the first step in taking down McDonalds!
10	mawnck Sun 11/1/2009 2:47p	>>Until we change the very fudnamentals of how our Government is elected, and how much influence lobbyists have we will never have real change in America.<< Funny thing - every time anybody tries anything in that direction, the Right screams "SOCIALISM!" Here's the cold, hard truth. The ONLY way to solve this is Socialized health care. Absolutely ANYTHING short of that is skiffleboard on the Titanic.

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