World Events
Topic: Washington State: Referendum 71

#	Author	Message
1	mele Thu 11/5/2009 8:07p	It may be too soon to call it a victory but the media is saying that WA voters approved Ref. 71. If this is true, it's a very important step in gaining equality for homosexuals in our country. This is the first time *voters* have approved a measure like this. I still am afraid that the rabid right won't back down and will keep trying to take the rights away, but I'm hoping this victory lasts! http://www.king5.com/news/poli...887.html
2	mele Fri 11/6/2009 10:48a	I'm kind of surprised that no one has commented on this. The importance of this being voter approved is huge. No more whining about "activist judges". (Not that that has stopped people from whining about it. The discussion boards on the various media websites are pretty disgusting.) I am so angered by the argument that so very many anti-gay marriage advocates spew about how they are okay with gay families having rights, they just can't change the definition of marriage. Well, here in WA, gays (and other domestic partners) had just that, everything but marriage and they tried/are trying to take it away. They are also trying to stop homosexuals from being discriminated against in the workplace, etc. They want no protection for gays at all. They want to be free to persecute them anyway they want. They truly do not want gays to have ANY place in society and are determined to do whatever they can to keep them down. It's truly frightening. And that they do it in God's name...so sickeningly evil.
3	BlueDevilSF Fri 11/6/2009 11:00a	I've been more preoccupied with the news out of Maine. That was just as upsetting as California. I did keep up on R-71 and read about the usual underhanded tactics used by the opposition, but I am glad to see this is likely going to win. What's more infuriating for me is the people who are now going after domestic partner laws. That is really sinking into the lowest of the low, but that's what I come to expect from these people.
4	Sport Goofy Fri 11/6/2009 11:05a	<< The importance of this being voter approved is huge. >> It's only huge in the state of Washington. The gay and lesbian community is headed for several more decades of inequality if they believe they can gain civil rights through any sort of state-by-state voting campaign. A few progressive states will rule in favor of civil rights at the ballot box, but the majority will not. The fact that what may be the country's most progressive state, California, could not pass Proposition 8 at the ballot box shows the impossibility of the state-by-state approach. If the gay and lesbian community were better organized, they would prioritize their resources to achieve victories on the national level. There are relatively easy victories out there, but very litte of the activist community is putting their effort behind them while they chase the gay marriage rabbit down the hole. For example, a repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell would be an immediate 50-state victory for gay and lesbian rights, and would open the door to further federal inroads for domestic partner benefits and inclusion of gays and lesbians in broader society. Even so, DADT only gets lukewarm support from most gay and lesbian activists since they consider it to be a military issue that doesn't impact the broader community. To the contrary, these seemingly narrow issues have much broader implications that will open doors for further civil rights advances far more quickly than random ballot measures on marriage equality that are regularly being defeated. Politicians are only too happy to let the gay community rally behind marriage rights, since they know the ballot initiatives will continually fail and offer them a wedge issue, like abortion, that will remain eternally unsolved at the state level and provide campaign fodder for decades to come. Meanwhile, the same politicians take very little heat for not progressing further on federal civil rights goals like DADT and ENDA.
5	mele Fri 11/6/2009 11:29a	Yes, BD, what happened in Maine is very disappointing. It's a historical vote, Sport. That is why it is huge. It's the first time something like this has passed by votes. It might take awhile for other states to catch up but that doesn't lessen the historical value of it. It is something to be celebrated (and is being celebrated) across state lines. Don't minimize it. Every year, the acceptance goes up approximately 1%. I don't think it will take more than a decade or two before *most* states will pass laws like this.
6	Sport Goofy Fri 11/6/2009 12:08p	<< It's a historical vote, Sport. That is why it is huge. >> << I don't think it will take more than a decade or two before *most* states will pass laws like this. >> It may be historic, but it leads people to the wrong conclusions -- that they can achieve civil rights at the ballot box. It may happen in Washington state, but it will never happen in Utah, Georgia, Alabama, etc., etc. The end result of pursuing a state-by-state strategy is a divided nation where individuals have some rights in some states and none in others. It also eases pressure on federal government politicians to take any action whatsoever on civil rights initiatives as long as the activists are consumed in their state campaigns. The state-by-state approach is a loser, and while Washingtonians may celebrate their victory, it may well be a pyrrhic one for the rest of the movement.
7	SingleParkPassholder Fri 11/6/2009 2:01p	I agree that waiting out a state by state vote and hoping that all 50 come around is not the proper strategy. It has been and will always be an equal protection issue, and the sooner the Supreme Court gets that issue the better. Hence, this case here: http://www.advocate.com/News/D..._Denied/ I've mentioned it before. It is slowly picking up steam, and the two lawyers, Theodore Olsen and David Boies, are phenomenal litigators. No one knows the USSC better than Olsen, who used to be Solicitor General. Gay marriage advocates should take note of this case, and follow the lead here. Olsen and Boies are taking a very sure, patient, steady, calm course towards their goal. This case could very well be the one that corrects the issue once and for all.
8	ecdc Fri 11/6/2009 2:18p	But is that possible with Scalia, Alito, and Roberts on the court?
9	ecdc Fri 11/6/2009 2:19p	^^^To say nothing of Thomas....
10	SingleParkPassholder Fri 11/6/2009 2:22p	That's only four possible no votes. Moreover, I give Olsen a lot of credit for knowing that court.

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