DCA, Future Expansion
Topic: Why is Disney's California Adventure a failure?

#	Author	Message
171	Captain Jack Sparrow Thu 10/28/2004 9:32a	Re: post #166 <<Again... I don't really care so much if people think GRR is the greatest when they can't find anything to say about it that doesn't apply to every raft ride I've ever been on. It's a little like picking a President because he has a manly handshake.>> ModHatter, They don't need to say anything to convince you of why they like the ride better.They don't need to show you facts or statistics. Again I will say, it is only their opinion, and opinions don't always need to be dissected if you disagree.
172	ModHatter Thu 10/28/2004 11:29a	No, people don't need to back up their opinion. But, if you're going to try to base your argument on an opinion, you should be able to back it up, or admit your argument isn't very strong. I had this topic on another board. I'm annoyed by people wearing a themepark shirt at a different themepark. I don't have a big deep-seated reason, I just do. Luckily, I wasn't trying to make an argument based on that, or it wouldn't fly. But here, people are arguing with the contention that Knott's rides would never fit in DCA based in part on the "far superior" raft ride DCA has. So, if you're going to say that, tell me what makes it so superior that someone would ridicule DB for thinking otherwise. And the answer boils down to "becauseitsdisney...brainsbrainsnrains..."
173	planodisney Thu 10/28/2004 11:37a	I think you misunderstand Mod, we were talking about Knotts attractions fitting into Disneyland, not DCA. I think there are saome things that could fit into DCA. And, there was no argument being based on DCAs raft ride being better than Knotts raft ride. Not sure where you got that from. It just evolved into a discussion of raft rides.
174	knoxvelour Thu 10/28/2004 11:42a	<<I'm annoyed by people wearing a themepark shirt at a different themepark. I don't have a big deep-seated reason, I just do.>> I'm annoyed by people who wear band t shirts to concerts of the band that's playing that night. Yes, we all know you like that band, otherwise you wouldn't be at their concert!
175	Kar2oonMan Thu 10/28/2004 11:46a	What makes Disney's raft ride superior to Knott's is the quality of the rockwork, the extra details like the"gear" packs on the back of the seats, the drop/spin, the geysers. On the portions of the ride that float past the walkways and the hotel, those elements carry on that area's "theme" wheras they do not at Knott's. The lift hill on GRR offers views outside the park, ruining some of the emmersive feel, as does the end of the ride at Knott's. The queue at Knott's is a little better than at DCA (Knott's walks you through some "wilderness" and some big footprints and a broken cage tell a bit of a story. Knott's missed big by not having an AA of Bigfoot awaiting in the final tunnel.) Is GRR WAY, WAY better than Knott's Bigfoor Rapids? Not really. But it is different and better "enough" overall (no corrugated tin tunnel at the end like Knott's) that I think a strong case can be made that it surpasses Knott's. However, Sea World's Shipwreck Rapids raft ride surpasses them both -- wetter, more story and even some real live animals along the way.
176	crapshoot Thu 10/28/2004 12:19p	<<But it is different and better "enough" overall (no corrugated tin tunnel at the end like Knott's) that I think a strong case can be made that it surpasses Knott's.>> OK, how about this: When considering the ten or so years after Big Foot Rapids opened, does GRR significantly represent newer technologies developed for theses types of rides since BFR? When the only real differences are rafting gear attached to the backs of seats, induced drop spin and more detailed rockwork, because both rides do have geysers, then Disney blew it. Instead of introducing a quality story, minimatronic animals or interactive elements, they basicly copied BFR but added only a couple of nice touches. Yes, Grizzly should surpass EVERY raft ride built previously, but as you correctly point out, Shipwreck Rapids is just alot more fun and exciting.
177	ModHatter Thu 10/28/2004 12:24p	Plano, I think it's you that misunderstands. For proof, I refer you to posts 153 and 155. People are practically falling over themselves to say how bad BFR is and how superior GRR is. Without a whole lot to back it up. I'm one of those people who doesn't want to discard sub-Disneyland rides into DCA. If it can fit in one, it can fit in both. But, tp tie this back to the thread for a change, many people do think you can just stick a bad ride into DCA, and because it's Disney, it will suddenly be A-OK. That kind of attitude expressed by the powers that be is precisely why DCA is not approaching its attendance needs. Now, if you want to take an average themepark attraction and Disneyfy it, that's a great place to start. Personally, I don't think Disney added enough to GRR to make it more than BFR. I don't think the Screamin' launch adds enough. And I don't think DCA added enough rides beyond those two and Soarin' in its initial offering to make DCA as a whole any better than any park, and in fact it's got a lot less to offer than so many. ToT is a step in the right direction, but it's a small step.
178	planodisney Thu 10/28/2004 12:57p	Once again, you misunderstand, or maybe I just didnt explain. I meant to take a jab at DCA, when I said that some Knotts attractions could go into DCA but not Disneyland. I am not being a blind supporter here. But, you said in your last post that we were talking about rides fitting into DCA from Knotts, when clearly that was not what the argument was about. The argument was about Knotts rides not fitting into DCA. You said that people were saying that Knotts rides couldnt fit into DCA, based on their argument that GRR was better than BFR. NOBODY ever said that . That is why I said you misunderstood, for those 2 reazons. But I honestly didnt mean to offend you by that, I just didnt want you to think that that was what was going on, because it wasnt.
179	planodisney Thu 10/28/2004 1:04p	Mod, I just went back and read posts 153 and 155. 153 was just making a side not about something he had thought, but if you go back and look at the beginnings of the discussion, you will see that it is clearly about what could go from Knotts to Disneyland. That is why DB made a list of attractions to go from Knotts to DB as did someone else. 155 just argues that GRR is better than BFR. He never says anything about no Knotts rides fitting into DCA based on his opinion of that fact.
180	ModHatter Thu 10/28/2004 1:16p	I'll tell you, Plano, I'm a bright guy. Just because I do not bow down to your opinion doesn't mean I don't understand.

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