DCA, Future Expansion
Topic: Why is Disney's California Adventure a failure?

#	Author	Message
321	WorldDisney Sat 8/6/2005 3:03p	LOL Roadtrip, I guess we are doing the attraction comparisons again ;). Look, DCA has 4 attractions that I REALLY want to see: TOT, Soarin, Animation buiding and Calif. Screamin. The rest that I wouldn't mind seeing (or fillers) if I stayed in the park more than 2 hours: Alladin, ITTBAB and GRR (season pending). The rest, I have ZERO interest in seeing or doing at this point, ZERO. So, that leaves a total of 7 attractions for me. As for DL, well, there are, as you say MUST SEE things I have to do: -Space Mountain -Splash Mountain -POTC -Haunted Mansion -BTM -Matterhorn (The only one, ANYWHERE!!) -Indiana Jones adventure (Don't have that at WDW, do you? ;)) -Fantasmic (Again, missing at MK) -Jungle Cruise -Buzz Lightyear (BETTER than WDW's version) Already, the MUST SEE list has already surpassed everything I have any interest in seeing in DCA and we haven't gotten to the 'fillers' list yet. My fillers list: -IASW -Autopia -Peter Pan -Pinochio -Casey Jr. -Tom Sawyer's island -DLRR -Mark Twain -Monorail -Star Tours -Pooh So, that's about 21 attractions that I like to do. The rest I have ZERO interest in doing, but probably ANOTHER 20 attractions that I don't bother with except very occasionally. Of course, I never have time to do them all in one day, so after I try and do the 10 MUST SEE's, if I have time, I do at least 5-7 fillers, but again, its NEVER enough time to do 15+ attractions in one day (Fantasmic alone is about 90 minutes when you count the 1 hour wait time just to sit and wait usually). Anyway, compare the 7 attractions I do AT MOST at DCA compared to the 20 I CAN do at DL and once again, very small comparison ;). God, DCA sucks ;).
322	WorldDisney Sat 8/6/2005 3:06p	Well Roadtrip, I just looked at your post in #319 and yes, you're RIGHT as my above post proves, just more to do at DL. Also, I forgot all about Mr. Toad ;). You can add that to the MUST SEE list bringing it to a total of 11 MUST SEES and 11 secondary things I must do which is about 22 attractions. Hey, cheer up though, we have a better MK park, but at least there are 3 more OTHER parks you can see at WDW and ALL better than sucky DCA IMO ;).
323	RoadTrip Sat 8/6/2005 3:47p	<<Hey, cheer up though, we have a better MK park, but at least there are 3 more OTHER parks you can see at WDW and ALL better than sucky DCA IMO ;).>> I think that might be why we WDW regulars tend to judge the parks as a collection rather than as individual parks. When you are coming from 1,000 miles away you would never think of going to just one of the parks. So we are used to getting our enjoyment from a collection of parks, and never really expect any single one to stand on its own. My reaction to DCA was not "what a crappy little park", but more "Wow, now Disneyland is even better".
324	WorldDisney Sat 8/6/2005 4:12p	^^^Good point. When I go to WDW, I certainly see them as a collection instead of individuals. But, I guess most people are programed to buy park hoppers much more than the other Disney resorts which only have one other park and all fairly new.
325	Darkbeer Sat 8/6/2005 4:17p	>>so I guess that means that you don't want to pay for a full price, one day admission into those parks either... << If I had to rank the parks based on the one day full price admission... 1. Disneyland - $56 2. Knott's Berry Farm - $45 3. SeaWorld San Diego - $50.95 4. Universal Studios Hollywood - $53 5. Six Flags Magic Mountain - $47.99 6. DCA - $56 And then If I took the current One Day offers for SoCals... 1. Knott's - $27.99, kids just $14.99 2. Six Flags Magic Mountain - $24.99 (Taco Bell coupon, expires at the end of the year, if anyone needs a couple, plese send me an e-mail, I will send some your way!) 3. Universal Stdios Hollywood - $38 (with Coke can) 4. SeaWorld San Diego - $40.95/kids $20.50 with a AAA card 5. Disneyland - $56 6. DCA - $56 (but no way would I buy a ticket at that price compared to the first 4 offers) But then again, I am not the only one who thinks that way, lets go back and look at the Consumer Reports rankings (that took price into consideration) back in May of 2003... First how the ratings worked... Quote: The Ratings are based on a nationally representative survey of almost 2,500 people, reflecting more than 5,500 visits between November 2000 and November 2002. The number of responses ranged from 169, for SeaWorld in San Diego, Calif., to 868, for Magic Kingdom in Florida's Walt Disney World. (We didn't receive enough responses to rate any of the 16 U.S. Six Flags parks, the largest chain.)<< And here are the basic ratings for the 14 parks in order. 1. Epcot, Lake Buena Vista, Fla. Great rides and shows, and better-than-average value, make this a top pick. 2. Disney-MGM Studios, Lake Buena Vista, Fla. Great rides and shows, average value at this working set. 3. Magic Kingdom, Lake Buena Vista, Fla. Great rides and shows; average value. 4. SeaWorld, Orlando, Fla. Marine adventure park offers great shows, better-than-average value, smaller crowds. 5. Universal's Islands of Adventure, Orlando, Fla. Great rides on five "islands" with an easy-to-tour circular layout. 6. SeaWorld, San Diego, Calif. Shows better than average, but souvenir quality worse. 7. Disney's Animal Kingdom, Lake Buena Vista, Fla. The newest, largest park in Disney World offers great shows. 8. Disneyland, Anaheim, Calif. Great rides at Disney's original park, but more crowded than most others. 9. Cedar Point, Sandusky, Ohio Great action-oriented rides, but crowds and souvenirs worse than most. 10. Busch Gardens, Tampa Bay, Fla. Better-than-average rides at this adventure park *** zoo, but it's not a standout. 11. Universal Studios Florida, Orlando, Fla. Rides better than average at this working studio; value worse. 12. Knott's Berry Farm, Buena Park, Calif. Value worse than most at this mix of more than 160 rides and attractions. 13. Universal Studios Hollywood, Universal City, Calif. "World's largest movie studio and theme park" scored worse than most for value and souvenirs. 14. Disney's California Adventure, Anaheim, Calif. Shows better than average, but value worse.
326	RoadTrip Sat 8/6/2005 4:24p	I have very little confidence in a survey that would rank parks #1 - #7 ahead of park #8 (Disneyland). I mean really, MGM Studios #2?? You've got to be kidding!! There are many people who justifiably rank MGM Studios BENEATH California Adventure. Of course the Consumer's Reports crowd is a rather odd crowd, so I wouldn't be surprised that they have rather odd tastes.
327	mstaft Sat 8/6/2005 4:31p	Re; Post #323- Good thoughts, Roadtrip! I never looked at it that way because I paid a single price admission to DCA for the first visit. Maybe that is why my one day parkhopper left me feeling like DCA was alot better in Dec 2004 than in 2001. I must say I did expect DCA to hit the Disney standards of a secondary park like MGM- but I was secretly hoping for an EPCOTish park!
328	Darkbeer Sat 8/6/2005 4:55p	>>Of course the Consumer's Reports crowd is a rather odd crowd, so I wouldn't be surprised that they have rather odd tastes.<< Or just different opinions than yours.... the smallest sample in that survey was 169 members, up to 868 members for the Magic Kingdom in Florida. This is also a set of folks that don't have a natural bias for Disney or any other parks... You have a right to your opinion, but that doesn't make other opinions wrong! Amazing, people don't like the ThemeParkInsider.com poll, why, because they personally disagree with the rankings.. and while I recently showed my rankings, which are different than the TPI rankings, the TPI poll is based on a lot of folks (yes, including my personal votes), but some folks prefer certain things to others... For me, I love Horseradish and Wasabi, but hate Pickles... Others would say the exact opposite.... But when folks like Rick Aristotle Munarriz from the Motley Fool (who owns both stock in Disney and Cedar Fair) say the following... First, lets see his thoughts on Disneyland... Quote: Disneyland rocked. While Tomorrowland felt hollow without Rocket Rods, Space Mountain, and the submarine voyage, Disney's original theme park was essentially the same vibrant oasis of guests, attractions, and long operating hours that it has always been during the summer. About right, many people complain about Tomorrowland, and with good reason.... Now, let's see his thoughts on DCA... Quote: Across the way, the same couldn't be said for Disney California Adventure. A lot has been written about the shortcomings of Disney's second West Coast park. Sadly, it's all true. It remains an incomplete destination. It opens later and closes earlier than its sister park as a silent bow of admission that it is not a full-day park. The park's newest attraction, a scaled-down version of Disney World's Tower of Terror, is helping. It's the ride of choice after the rope drops at 10 a.m. A summer promotion with McDonald's got us Big Mac-consuming guests in an hour early, which proved to be plenty of time to knock off three quick rides on the new attraction before the rest of the park opened, but why did Disney give in to the cloning process? It's not a regional operator like Six Flags that can afford to dilute the magnetism of a new ride by copying it. Why would the masses that have already experienced the ride in Florida over the past 10 years head out to California? California Adventure has just one worthwhile original attraction, but that distinction will vanish once Soarin' Over California opens in Florida next year. Yes, attendance is bouncing back at the park after horrifically sandbagged levels, but rather than wonder whether the park's initial flaws were the result of the concept or the execution, one is left wondering why Disney continues to open incomplete parks. Isn't it humiliating enough to have to list strolling characters as park attractions on the official website? But some of the most interesting comments dealt with Knott's Berry Farm... Quote: Tied up in Knott's We had chosen to make Knott's our hub for the first half of our trip. Cedar Fair is cool enough to furnish its investors with discounts at the adjacent Radisson, and the central location made it ideal to check out other area attractions before hitting the park for a couple of hours after the school groups board their yellow buses and move on. The park itself is an endearing showcase of contrasts. You have a low-capacity stagecoach ride powered by four live horses galloping past spinning flat rides and tower-drop thrill rides. Trains and gold mine railcars circle gently around on their rustic tracks while a half-dozen varied roller coasters take a more adrenaline-fueled approach. We weren't catching the park at its finest hour. A walled-off lake was drained as the park was laying down the groundwork for its next coaster. It forced the closing of two minor attractions and created a bottleneck at the entrance, but as a unit holder, I accepted it as short-term pain for long-term gain. I relished the enthusiastic ride operators, and we had such a good time that we wound up spending more days at Knott's than we did at the two Disney parks combined. WOW, his family decided to spend more time at Knott's than Disneyland and DCA combined....... Quote: However, it did fall short in some ways from the standards set at Cedar Point's peninsular thrill haven. There was no complimentary ride reservation system like the flagship park's FreeWay option. Some of the attractions weren't being run at full capacity despite queues that warranted that. At Cedar Point, the Midway Market buffet is a quality eatery, while Knott's Auntie Pasta's smorgasbord is a culinary disaster. When Cedar Point's new coaster proved to be temperamental last summer, the website provided daily updates. Over at Knott's, its newest coaster was down for three weeks, yet it was still being touted on the park's site as a featured attraction. Truth be told, earlier this week the Knott's site even had rides listed that have been closed for months. Yet we also appreciated the wider variety of rides at Knott's. That park was shadier too, save for the incomprehensibly uncovered overflow area at the tiny pass-processing office. While I'm not sure how -- or even if -- the ride closings and in-park construction will hurt the 2004 summer season, the park is sprucing itself up nicely for a knockout 2005.<< It does show that many folks think that some non-Disney parks are better than parks Disney offers, especially DCA....
329	RoadTrip Sat 8/6/2005 5:46p	You won't find me knocking Cedar Fair parks. Valley Fair in the Twin Cities metro area is a Cedar Fair park. While largely a coaster and spinner park, it is extremely well managed and kept squeaky clean. It is themed as a turn-of-the-century amusement park, and they actually carry it off pretty well. It isn't a Disney park, but I have always enjoyed my time there. On a straight number of attractions basis, they probably have more than any of the U.S. Disney parks, including Disneyland. Valley Fair has 45 rides including a nice selection of coasters. Steel Venom is a 90 degree impulse launch coaster with a top speed of 68 mph. Wild Thing features a 207 foot initial drop, a top speed of 74 mph, and the longest low gravity section of any coaster in the world. They have live entertainment at a theater, amphitheater and two outdoor stages. They also have an IMAX theater and a complete water park; both included with the theme park admission. No... you won't find me knocking Cedar Fair parks.
330	Blacksheep Uncle Sat 8/6/2005 8:39p	Consumer Reports...huh... I think some people find they are a reasonably good judge of toasters and what-nots that they [Consumer Reports] can quantitatively test; but their theme park rankings seems as nutty as their automobile ranking...(although I'm guessing that many park operators would be overjoyed their "failed" theme park ranked 14th in the country huh :D) and since CR's surveys results derived from only those Consumer Reports readers that went to the named theme parks and then bothered to return the survey, they are hardly representative of the general population... one more comment on surveys in general: (and this applies to Disney's survey-ateers too) "Surveys tend to be weak on validity and strong on reliability. The artificiality of the survey format puts a strain on validity. Since people's real feelings are hard to grasp in terms of such dichotomies as "agree/disagree," "support/oppose," "like/dislike," etc., these are only approximate indicators of what we have in mind when we create the questions." from Colorado State University overview on conducting surveys http://writing.colostate.edu/r eferences/research/survey/index.cfm and why the need to defend an opinions with surveys and ranking and such?...there's nothing wrong with liking Sea World or whatever, whether a survey proclaims them "top 10" or not...and I don't think anyone here is addle-minded enough to be convinced of the worth of a park based on a survey (especially a non-random survey like CR uses)

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