DCA, Future Expansion
Topic: Why is Disney's California Adventure a failure?

#	Author	Message
31	ModHatter Wed 10/20/2004 5:33p	Okay, so do we all agree that DCA is failing to garner anywhere near the projected attendance figures? I'm going to assume that's a unanimous Yes. With the economy and tourism down, that accounts for part of the problem. Then again, residents of the local market could logically be more likely to visit DCA instead of taking a vacation outside the region. Regardless, do we all agree that the development strategy for DCA has some responsibility for the failure of DCA to get its projected attendance? Again, feel safe in assuming a unanimous Yes. With that said... have the execs in charge changed the DCA strategy enough to improve attendance without inflating their numbers? That is one thing I do believe has not been extablished yet.
32	arstogas Thu 10/21/2004 3:52a	>>>Okay, let's just fix the semantics and say DCA is failING, then move on to the meat of the situation.<<< Thank you. >>>K2M, you are putting together 2 different points, as I read the slide (MHO), the Slide had a title, and then, as shown by bullet points (not possible to show here at LP) 7 DIFFERENT points related to how to make a cheaper park.<<< The most logical inference, from the context of the presentation with information thus provided, is that this point was all about finding an equivocation that put a positive spin on Six Flags' approach, enough so that it could be seen as something worth appropriating in a Disney park. To assume the opposite doesn't make sense in context. >>>I guess you missed the joke...(and the irony of someone who spends so much time at DCA explaining so frequently why DCA is a "failure")<<< There are photojournalists who documented the Killing Fields who still can't sleep at night. Just because you are a daily witness to a debacle, doesn't mean you are enjoying it or marvel at its wonders like some brainless dolt.
33	crapshoot Thu 10/21/2004 7:57a	<<There's certainly time, as well as the possibility that good things can begin to happen at that Park.>> Hey Gang!, Pretty much everyone, with some knowledge of DCA's short history, does understand that the park has underperformed. The "whys" seem to be the sticking point in any discussion. But now it seems that the park is being scrutinized by those of Disney who have longer histories with the Parks and perhaps better gut feelings on objectively understanding some of those "whys". No one can expect radical changes at DCA, as fiscal responsibility is of paramount concern. But, I think we will begin to see more subtle changes throughout the park that will enhance or detoxify some of the the original show elements that represented a different mindset other than that of the more traditional Disney Park's optimisic portrayals. In other words, they will most likely begin to make DCA a softer, gentler park by taking some of the original edge off of it. That ought to drive some of the DCA "pureists" crazy! Crapshoot out.
34	thenurmis Thu 10/21/2004 11:03a	I find it a cross between funny and sad that these " Failed park" topics still fire up on boards. The points are all redundent, and for the most part reliant on the off hand comments of disgruntled castmembers or wannabe designers. To call DCA a failure is little more than an attempt to get someones goat, or sound off as an attempted authority on some thing we are most not. If you don't like the park, don't go. Save your money, take it some where elce. But to continue to voice off extreme and some what angree opinions on how you would run Disneys theme parks, and exspantions is a waste of time. The park is in a constant state of groth and change, and has been fighting a good fight to meet the desires of guests and Disney's goals. Constant bashing does nothing productive, makes no attempt to improve, and is tired as it is boring. I for one am looking forward to returning to DLR and visiting both parks. I injoy them equally, and giving all the changes being done to Disney land, will more than likely spend more of my time at California Adventures. You are welcome to injoy the "failure" with me or you can stay in "inter-space" and talk about how bad it is in the real world.
35	ModHatter Thu 10/21/2004 11:30a	Well, to thenurmis and the like, I give them back their own advice. If you don't like the topics about what is wrong with DCA, don't read. There certainly people who go on a topic, ANY topic, and just bash and have nothing new to say. But in my experience, most people on Disney boards genuinely like Disney and want to be constructive. That said... is it fiscally responsible to make these little changes that are going to let money keep flowing liberally out of DLR? I think CM Matt has demonstrated with his approach to Buzz and Space, and the park in general, that reclaiming the magic isn't something you can do on a budget. DCA in fact needs to follow Disneyland's model. It needs its New Orleans Square or New Tomorrowland to not only usher in a new era for the park, but to beckon new guests or guests who lost interest in the park, and beckon them in a more powerful way than a single ride like ToT can.
36	thenurmis Thu 10/21/2004 11:42a	Disney has made a non reversable investment in DCA. They have no choice but to continue to upgrade it, as the do to all there parks. Disneyland is not perfect, but it does have enough attractions to hold its own, and is much loved (and little bashed). Therefor it requires a smaller amount than a new park (DCA) which is still in it's formatable years. The feel ing i get from this thread, is that it has been given the title of "lost cause" and the only route is to kill it and build something elce. Reality is this would be impossible, as would retheming it to a new world. Why I read these threads is very simple. I like the park so when I am surfing the board, and come across a title like "why is DCA a failure" I naturaly want to see if some is thinking or simple spitting out the old "I could have done it better, and Mike is a dummy " ideal. On this thread it was the same old spit. If you all want to sit back on the key boards and have a whine fest on how the park sucks then go a head knock your soxs off. But I can't help but think that you may be wasting a good part of your life complaining about the sky being blue, and birds who sing too much.
37	arstogas Thu 10/21/2004 11:58a	>>>The points are all redundent, and for the most part reliant on the off hand comments of disgruntled castmembers or wannabe designers.<<< How pompous, ill-informed and presumptive of you. Evidence of a great and discerning intellect, certainly. >>>To call DCA a failure is little more than an attempt to get someones goat, or sound off as an attempted authority on some thing we are most not.<<< Most, no. Several, yes. And again, "little more than an attempt to get someone's goat?" Is that how you'd characterize the assessment made INTERNALLY by some of Disney's own management? How ridiculously simplistic and shallow. If you don't like the discourse, if you find it redundant, then avoid the thread. The TITLE of this thread should have been a dead giveaway to anyone with an iota of intelligence and caution. Once again, someone has to remind someone that this is a DISCUSSION BOARD. Discussion boards contain issues of endless debate and contention as WELL as other issues embraced by most. If you can't tolerate that without making yourself so odious, then please find some other place to taste "spit".
38	ModHatter Thu 10/21/2004 12:06p	But see, I think that's the heart of this thread. There are the rah-rah types who say DCA is great, leave it alone. And there are people who say DCA sucks, bulldoze it. This thread started as a discussion of why, regardless of content and quality, DCA is a failure in business terms. Yes, DCA is not likely to go the way of Krofftworld. But, regardless of who likes it and who bashes it, it does demonstrably need to change.
39	Jim in Pasadena CA Thu 10/21/2004 12:26p	Wow, just like old times....
40	Kar2oonMan Thu 10/21/2004 1:17p	>>The most logical inference, from the context of the presentation with information thus provided, is that this point was all about finding an equivocation that put a positive spin on Six Flags' approach, enough so that it could be seen as something worth appropriating in a Disney park. To assume the opposite doesn't make sense in context.<< You're probably right. But after all this time, the idea that anyone would stand in front of Disney folks and sing the praises of anything Six Flags still seems so bizarre that maybe I just am simply unable to process it.

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