DCA, Future Expansion
Topic: Why is Disney's California Adventure a failure?

#	Author	Message
41	ModHatter Thu 10/21/2004 1:40p	Put simply, DCA is our DMGM. Instead of just creating a good Disney park from day 1, both parks focused on trumping the competition. DMGM had a better footing because they went for the Park Hoppers right away. And they had a real resort to back them up. DLR doesn't have anywhere near the "captive audience" that WDW has.
42	Captain Jack Sparrow Thu 10/21/2004 2:22p	Darkbeer....accurate as usual with the facts but, let me add a few points. In California, not DLP,WDW, theme parks were discounting, the war to attract visitors to their parks was on. To this day,Disney's main competition, Knott's MM, Universal Studios give discounts.I don't think Disney had a choice and had to give discounts to stay progressive with it's competitors.As you can see, these discounts are starting to vanish and prices for AP's are going up.The latest commercial for DL says this is your last chance to get the "5 for 3" passes.Now, is this good for "California Disney"...don't know yet but, they obviously have a plan just like they did with DCA when they started discounting.DCA is improving and will be part of their new marketing campaign for the 50th. Look for a new and improved DCA in the next three years! I still say......... go to DCA! To the ship!
43	thenurmis Thu 10/21/2004 6:18p	Pompus and simplistic, well your half right. I do veiw things in the simplist way possible. That is my nature, and as such i will post them in the same manor. The pompusness discription needs to be shared. In fact I might change it to opionated. We all have our own view of what kind or quatilty of park DCA is, or if it is need of major or minor change/new rides or attractions. What I find here (on this thread spec.) is a desire to hide facts behind fiction. A strong desire to throw down refuted information slightly blended with factual data, a few names and a lot of assumptions, sprinkle a dash of dramitic flare and a couple "Eisner dos'nt know what he's doing comments", and presto you have the formula for a pile of bad smells. DCA has faced the storm of hatred from "informed" Disney lovers for a long time, well befor the park was finished. I can't help but feel a lot of the anger was aimed at the new park, in some attempt to discredit the people at the head of the company. Is it as culturally targeted as Disneyland? Does it hold theme as well as Disneyland? Will it grow to be as loved, by guest, as Disneyland? These are reasonable questions. However, to ask why it is a failure, is to presume, that it is done, fini, caput, six feet under, ect. The park has really just begun. It is still growing adding new attractions, inventing it's self if you will. To call a new born a failure because it can't keep up to it's older brother, or it parents incompitent because the youngest sibling isn't as strong as the older is simply wrong. The park is as much a failure as Disneland was during it's first few years, and I for one am very happy to be around to watch it grow. These bashing threads do not really bother me as much as you think. I find them a bit humorous and humorless at the same time. But I do think that the information that feeds them is tainted to say the least, and that the informents that keep leaking out the continous messages of failure and woe, need to be looked at with as much scrutiny as the park it's self.
44	ModHatter Thu 10/21/2004 6:25p	Well, so much for getting beyond semantics... I guess if people want badly enough to be bashed, they will be.
45	RoadTrip Thu 10/21/2004 6:39p	^^^^ Post #43 is the most intelligent post I have read on this topic in the dozens of threads I've read. I don't really get post #44, but I think I'm about 40 years older than he is, so that figures. :-)
46	ModHatter Thu 10/21/2004 7:12p	Wow... if you're 40 years older than me, hope you're enjoying your retirement. If you're confused, here is a repost of the "let's put the semantics behind us" postings: >>Okay, let's just fix the semantics and say DCA is failING, then move on to the meat of the situation.<< >>Okay, so do we all agree that DCA is failing to garner anywhere near the projected attendance figures? I'm going to assume that's a unanimous Yes. With the economy and tourism down, that accounts for part of the problem. Then again, residents of the local market could logically be more likely to visit DCA instead of taking a vacation outside the region. Regardless, do we all agree that the development strategy for DCA has some responsibility for the failure of DCA to get its projected attendance? Again, feel safe in assuming a unanimous Yes.<< So to go on about the use of the term "failure" is just semantic bickering. Further, to call this thread a bashing thread is unfounded. Please, cite the bashing! Where is it? I did something silly and actually READ the thread, as it was being written and again just now. Didn't see the bashing. Sounds like the "tainted information" was his own, not the thread's.
47	tangaroa Thu 10/21/2004 7:22p	>The park is as much a failure as >Disneland was during it's first few >years, and I for one am very happy to >be around to watch it grow. I've been very critical of DCA ever since it was announced back in 1996. I remember being very excited for Westcot and being disappointed with what was finally announced (I remember hoping beyond all hope that the plan would just die like Westcot before it got built). So I've had reason to hate DCA from the very beginning and no one here would say I never expressed that. There have been things at DCA I liked like Soarin and even to a lesser extent Eureka and Taste Pilots - but overall the park had very little to keep me entertained for a whole day. Flash forward to 4 years later. By Disneyland's 4th birthday they had added Alice in Wonderland, The Columbia, The Grand Canyon Diorama, The Matterhorn, the Subs and the Monorail. Disneyland expanded and grew quickly. That's not the case for DCA - for whatever reason. At DCA I find it hard to justify a trip JUST to see the Tower of Terror again. If there were two or three new rides there maybe I would - but nothing there has a strong repeat value. While the park should be expanding quickly - they've really only added one major ride (ToT) while letting other rides like Soarin and Muppets and Bugs get old and boring. So I think even though they've added TOT - there's even less at DCA to interest me now than in 2001. But unlike 2001 I've pretty much resigned myself to the idea that DCA will never be the fully fleshed out park that I wanted on opening day. It doesn't bother me nearly as much as it did before. Being gone from DL for so long as given me a new perspective on the old park - and as such DCA just seems to matter less and less. Unless Disney can find the energy, the creativity, and the money to add three or four new big E tickets in a two year period - there's never going to be the growth that Disneyland had - and I honestly don't think this company is capable of doing it. By the time they add the next E ticket in 2006 or 2007 - ToT will be old and stale, same as the other rides in the park. For that reason I've pretty much given up entirely on DCA.
48	thenurmis Thu 10/21/2004 7:41p	"Further, to call this thread a bashing thread is unfounded. Please, cite the bashing! Where is it? I did something silly and actually READ the thread, as it was being written and again just now. Didn't see the bashing." This is really sad, the thread has been filled with points to hammer home the failure of the park, the inability of the people in charge, and it's inability to never succeed, and you can't see it? The title alone holds a highly negitive ideal of the park. "but we are not "bashing" just saying that it's really bad and a failure..." Have I just assumed that the term failure means to fail or hold no success? It's so sad that some have become so acustom to the dissing of the park, as to not realise that they are doing it.
49	ModHatter Thu 10/21/2004 7:58p	Again... cite the BASHING... or get off the pot.
50	thenurmis Thu 10/21/2004 9:53p	I didn't take a lot of time, and i do under stand that in some cases the orig. thought of the comments were not to "bash", but my point here is simple to show that we have all become a bit to willing to let the slamming happen with out even noticing it. It's a classic case of abuse, were some one becomes so accustom to abusing another, that they don't see what or how their actions or comments can be seen as bad. Here are a few comments I seen,(on this thread) that I veiw as a "bash. I have not named names on any (again there not reposted to slam any one , but the general way that we as "fans" under estamate how and what we say, effects the perseption of a park DCA of other) ...and if you stayed too long to look at anything, you could see the painted flats, hear the hollow pop music, and taste the knock-off sandwiches from the 'Wine Country.' I have had one of the best meals eaten at any DLR resturants in Wine country. The Vinyard room is a very very good place to eat and I would recomend it to any one. "..DCA failed to capture any of that in its pedestrian offerings and its shallow theming." ..I have read how poorly themed this park is since befor it was finished, yet when I walk through all I can see is attention to detail each land flows seamlesly from the other, and I find little treats (like fire fly lamp posts , saber tooth bones in the mountain, and more) to bring the feel to life "DCA has never been a park with a vision, just a business plan with a theme" The vision was the dream of California, and the whole park celibrates this, I really don't get how it could be missed. Are not all parks a bussiness plan with a theme? Is not the prime idea to produce themed entertainment, in the hopes of making money? "Don't beleive me, just ask some other long time posters about stories that broke out .. and ended up here .. about accounts of Mr. Eisner setting the stage for the most meager park possible" This is some of the lets throw in a hit on Mike, to lay down grounds for his removal, at the exspence of the park. "Just because you are a daily witness to a debacle, doesn't mean you are enjoying it or marvel at its wonders like some brainless dolt." This is a goodie, basicly if you like the park and can't see how flawed it is you are a brainless dolt. nice Again when posted the comments may not have been directly intended as a bash, however, they are very easy to read that way. I really do not have any problems with some one not liking DCA, it is a mater of choice. I don't have any problem with some one putting their two bits as to what they might do if given the opertunity I don't even see a problem with people bashing the park, openly. (although I think it a bit of a waste of time) Where I do see a small amount of goofyness is the amount of energy spent by some to hide their bashing as constuctive discussion. I can't help but look at things in a simple way. In fact I injoy the complex made simple. but I do get flustered when the simple is made to be complex. The park as been under the micro scope for too many for too long. It's time to injoy the magic.

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