DCA, Future Expansion
Topic: Why is Disney's California Adventure a failure?

#	Author	Message
51	thenurmis Thu 10/21/2004 9:56p	just reread my last post and i have to learn how to type slower or proof read beter or both . please excuse the grammer /spelling .....too fast, and not enough sleep.
52	oc_dean Thu 10/21/2004 10:20p	>>It's time to injoy the magic.<< There's magic in DCA? LOL I've been missing it this whole time!! DARN! ;) Mr. Eisner set forth to create the cheapest park possible .. and it shows. Yes .. it's better than WDSP .. and there are few elements to enjoy .. but it's not enough. I do look forward to a day they infuse some imagination. The kind they did quite brilliantly from DL, to WDW, to EPCOT, to TDL, to D/MGM, to DLP, and TDS. It's like there's these two totally different classifications of Disney standards. The above I mentioned ... and DCA/WDSP. One brand with all the repeatability one could love forever .. and the other ... just waiting for the good times to roll in.
53	RoadTrip Thu 10/21/2004 10:36p	Granted... DCA has not met its original attendance projections. But since 9/11, no other Disney Park has met the original attendance projections either. So what? The critics seem to be saying that Eisner and company wanted to go cheap and create a park based on the 6-Flags model. I'm not sure I agree with that, but for that sake of argument I will say that is true. But if it IS true, how can anyone say that DCA has not been a RESOUNDING SUCCESS? I am quite certain that in each year since it has been open, DCA has outdrawn every 6-Flags park in the nation. So... If the model for DCA is 6-Flags, and DCA has consistently outdrawn every 6-Flags park, how on earth can it possibly be considered a failure?
54	arstogas Thu 10/21/2004 10:41p	>>>Pompus and simplistic, well your half right. I do veiw things in the simplist way possible. That is my nature, and as such i will post them in the same manor.<<< Thus begins an almost incomprehensible post, so disconnected in not only its spelling and grammar, but in its thought process, and so loaded with cliches and accusations that bear little semblance to reality, that one wonders not only WHY you're trying to make a case, but WHAT that case is about. >>>The pompusness discription needs to be shared. In fact I might change it to opionated. We all have our own view of what kind or quatilty of park DCA is, or if it is need of major or minor change/new rides or attractions. What I find here (on this thread spec.) is a desire to hide facts behind fiction. A strong desire to throw down refuted information slightly blended with factual data, a few names and a lot of assumptions, sprinkle a dash of dramitic flare and a couple "Eisner dos'nt know what he's doing comments", and presto you have the formula for a pile of bad smells.<<< Again, so filled with hyperbole, that the grammatical and other problems pale in comparison. And this is only emblematic of the emptiness of your FURTHER posts on the subject, ALL of which exist in protest of the very EXISTENCE of this thread, and its purpose, which were well articulated by both Darkbeer and Modhatter. If you can't see that, maybe it's time to join whatever school your kids go to, and get some lessons in reading comprehension. And I find it ludicrous that someone living in BRITISH COLUMBIA assumes any kind of perspective on a park that he may have stepped in less than just about anyone else commenting on this board, and clearly a person whose disconnect from the stated principles of the discussion is so evident it's become almost embarrassing. >>>It's time to injoy the magic.<<< And thanks for being so "intertaining" and "inlightening".
55	arstogas Thu 10/21/2004 10:43p	>>>please excuse the grammer /spelling .....too fast, and not enough sleep.<<< Out of respect for those who DO take the time to post with some lucidity, please, feel free to take all the time you need.
56	RoadTrip Thu 10/21/2004 10:45p	^^^ You could have countered thenurmis' arguments without being so nasty about it. Ability to spell-check does not translate to validity of opinion. :-)
57	oc_dean Thu 10/21/2004 10:58p	>>I'm not sure I agree with that<< uhhh .. I wish I could remember some of the names ... but as some high level execs bolted out of the company in the last few years .. the stories popped up right here on the LP boards. And I've been told by some high industry people connected with Disney .. and told me themselves what Disney execs were saying behind closed doors. They've been outed.
58	Darkbeer Thu 10/21/2004 11:15p	You want stories.... Here is one blast from the past...October 1st, 2002 http://www.laughingplace.com/d efault.asp?WCI=MsgBoard&WCE=T-25820-P-1&Refresh=1021230933 >>But lets take the focus OFF Pressler, and look at what the mainstream media has said about the park itself.... http://www2.ocregister.com/ocr web/ocr/article.do?id=4542 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Try to turn California Adventure into something more than an oft-vacant sideshow for Disneyland..... Look at California Adventure, the signature of Pressler's reign as theme-park king. The ailing park surely suffers from a lack of amusements - an obvious result of its relatively low-budget construction, if you can say that about a $1.4 billion park. Pressler's bet that a quirky mix of rides, eateries and retailing would make the new park a draw was a flop. For Disney, California Adventure is not the sole Disney ailment. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www2.ocregister.com/ocr web/ocr/article.do?id=4585 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Keonig(sic) said Pressler does deserve a good share of the blame for the alleged lack of creative ambition at the Disney theme parks. He said California Adventure, in which Pressler played a central role, suffers from a much deeper problem than temporary economic woes. It's a conceptual problem, he said: The mostly local people who attend Disneyland simply don't want to attend a theme park about California. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/ business/apbiz_story.asp?category=1310&slug=Disney%20Pressler quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Disney's California Adventure park in Anaheim got off to a slow start when its attempt to appeal to adults with gourmet restaurants and nostalgic carnival attractions failed to catch on. The park has been retooling by adding more rides for younger children and returning to more tried and true Disney themes. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://cbs.marketwatch.com/new s/default.asp?siteid=mktw quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- California Adventure, completed for $1.4 billion in early 2001, never quite caught on, as low attendance has forced Disney to constantly revamp the park. The price tag is considered low for a theme park, since new parks in eastern Asia are costing $4 billion to $5 billion but are financed and designed by other companies that take out licenses with Disney. California Adventure -- developed solely by Disney -- was seen as being long on retail outlets, such as a Wolfgang Puck restaurant, a sourdough bread bakery, a winery and a series of restaurants and shops made to look like a Hollywood studio. And half the $1.4 billion spent went toward construction of the Grand Californian Hotel. Conversely, it was considered short on attractions, especially for young children. California Adventure is revamping a sizable portion of the park and putting in a new attraction called A Bug's Land, based on the movie "A Bug's Life." It's due to open early next month. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Al Lutz, a longtime Disney parks observer and creator of the Web site MousePlanet.com, regularly monitors park activity to gauge attendance and park improvements. He says Disneyland continues to draw the same numbers of crowds it always has, in the 25,000 range, but California Adventure lags at 4,000 on weekdays and 10,000 to 15,000 on weekends. Lutz said it showed that the decisions made on California Adventure, primarily under Pressler's purview, were not the most sound. "I think he approached them as retail operations and didn't look at them for what they are," Lutz said. Each theme park needs strong elements of showmanship to interest attendees, he added. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.orlandosentinel.com /business/tourism/orl-asecpressler27092702sep27,0,4685423.story?coll=orl%2Dhome%2Dheadlines quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But the Anaheim strategy has stumbled. California Adventure has fallen well short of its original attendance target of 30,000 people a day. In a recent interview with the Times, Pressler said the park suffers from perception problems he did not see. "We took some chances, tried to do some things a little differently, and they didn't all work," he said. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.orlandosentinel.com /business/tourism/orl-asecweissbio27092702sep27,0,233565.story?coll=orl%2Dhome%2Dheadlines quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Harriss' tenure at Disneyland has included that attraction's coolly received second theme park, California Adventure. That attraction, which opened last year, has resorted to discounting tickets to attract tourists. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jimhillmedia.com/ne warticles/singles/bigears.html quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But - hey -- it's not like the Walt Disney Company's hearing problem is a recent occurrence. Senior Imagineers will tell you (off the record, of course) that they repeatedly tried to make the folks in the Team Disney building (Both the Anaheim as well as the Burbank branch) aware of their concerns about "Disney's California Adventure." But Mouse House execs just refused to listen to them. "I mean, think about it, Jim," said one unnamed WDI guy to me just the other day. "Eisner & Co. wanted to change Anaheim into Orlando. A destination resort where people could come and stay & spend money for three or four days at a time." "Which is all well & good. Except that Anaheim isn't Orlando. The out-of-state versus locals mix down there is roughly 85% out-of-state visitors, 15 % Florida residents. Out here, the locals to out-of-state visitors ratio is more along the lines of 65% Southern California residents, 34% out-of-state tourists." "You see what I'm saying here, Jim? The Walt Disney Company relies on regular visits from Southern California residents in order to keep attendance levels high at the Disneyland Resort. So what does Disney do when it tries to turn Anaheim into a destination resort? It builds a California-themed theme park - a place with limited appeal to SoCal residents. DCA - at least in its original incarnation - was doomed, Jim. Virtually from the moment that Disneyland opened its preview center." "And we tried to warn them, Jim. We argued ‘til we were blue in the face. But the suits wouldn't listen to us. They just seemed to think that giving Southern Californians the opportunity to eat Wolfgang Puck's pizza while looking out at the lights of Paradise Pier was going to be enough to put that place over the top. That the locals would have no choice but to love DCA." Well, we all know how THAT decision turned out, don't we? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <<
59	RoadTrip Thu 10/21/2004 11:23p	^^^^ OK... so I don't doubt that your quotes are accurate (thought the accuracy of the opinions is not assured). But I'm still wondering... what 6-Flags park has outdrawn DCA since its opening? Inquiring minds want to know...
60	Darkbeer Thu 10/21/2004 11:31p	Here are some great quotes from a CBS MarketWatch article from November 2002... http://www.laughingplace.com/d efault.asp?WCI=MsgBoard&WCE=T-28056-P-1&Refresh=1021232159 >>Walt Disney Co. is betting small insects and a big building will help its troubled California Adventure theme park find a following nearly two years after it opened at a cost of $650 million. California Adventure, the adjacent Grand Californian hotel and the Downtown Disney shopping district cost a total $1.4 billion. The park itself cost an estimated $650 million. By contrast, the new DisneySea park in Tokyo -- paid for by licensees -- went for roughly $3 billion.<< http://www.laughingplace.com/d efault.asp?WCI=MsgBoard&WCE=T-28059-P-1&Refresh=1021232622 >>To get California Adventure numbers up, Disney will have to acknowledge the theme needs to be reworked. Much of its business is local, and there are few park visitors who want an education on their own state, analysts say. "In order to turn this around, they have to turn their back on the concept," said Jim Hill, a longtime Disney observer who operates a Web site devoted to company news. He says there are a number of proposals under consideration to add new attractions at the park, all of which will result in the California theme getting shunted aside. "Everything that's on the table is stuff that's fun to ride. It has nothing to do with the California theme," Hill said.<< http://www.laughingplace.com/d efault.asp?WCI=MsgBoard&WCE=T-28057-P-1&Refresh=1021232827 >>To be sure, California Adventure has gone through the growing pains associated with many of Disney's parks. But some observers say it's worse this time. One of them is John Cora, Disney's former vice president in charge of resort development, who was responsible for putting in many of the attractions at the new park. He left the company shortly after it opened in February 2001, and now is a theme park consultant based in Oceanside, Calif. Cora says he had an amicable parting with Disney. Cora says Disney's highest priority in developing the park was to keep costs down. "That was the bottom line," he said, adding he differed with management over how much and where to spend money on the park. California Adventure, the adjacent Grand Californian hotel and the Downtown Disney shopping district cost a total $1.4 billion. The park itself cost an estimated $650 million. By contrast, the new DisneySea park in Tokyo -- paid for by licensees -- went for roughly $3 billion. Cora says that the underlying problem is that to round out the park, California Adventure had to put in an inordinately large number of high-end restaurants, stores, and other retail outlets. Patrons balked at the prospect of spending $45 to get in, and then spend more on goods and food. That was the influence of former Disney parks chief Paul Pressler coming through, Cora says. Pressler had extensive training in the retail sector and left Disney to become chief executive of Gap Inc. in September. "Part of the problem is Paul came from retail. He thought retail and still thinks retail," Cora said. "We spent enough money overbuilding retail and food (operations) to add three or four more major attractions to the park." Some of those facilities are closed or have been replaced. Along with the Soap Opera Bistro and Mondavi winery, Wolfgang Puck operated a restaurant in the heart of the park for a time but eventually left. Disney is operating another restaurant there now. << So we have one of the key players in building DCA saying things like cost was the number one issue, and that they overspent on food and retail (So much so that they could have added three or four more attractions for the same price!!!) WOW!!!

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