DCA, Future Expansion
Topic: Why is Disney's California Adventure a failure?

#	Author	Message
61	Darkbeer Thu 10/21/2004 11:39p	In what way, Road Trip, I know that in 2002 that both DCA and Six Flags Magic Mountain had the same average daily attendance (Remember, SFMM is not open every day). Many regional parks have much higher daily atttendance than DCA, Cedar Point has about 40,000 a day on average, while DCA has been around 14,500. So it depends on how you look at the numbers.... Six Flags Great Adventure has a higher attendance than SFMM, so in terms of average Daily Attendance, SFGA did beat DCA... But back to the Blast to the Past quotes, here is one of my favorites, riht out of Cynthia Harris's mouth http://www.laughingplace.com/N ews-PID501150-501153.asp >>LP: I'm sure it's going to be a big success. How important is that success of DCA and Downtown Disney and all the rest to the future of this park here? CH: First of all we think this is going to be a gargantuan success because - it's not just that we're excited about it, anybody who has had an opportunity to read, see or hear anything about it when we've done our press releases and you've been to several of those, just the responses come back, it's like wow that's even better or more or more extensive than I thought. We're anticipating that. I think it speaks to anything else that the bigger the success it is that's really going to inspire us to do more and more things within Disneyland and within the Resort at large. We're in the business to serve our guests. When they respond positively it reinforces to us - "let's do more of that."<<
62	Captain Jack Sparrow Thu 10/21/2004 11:49p	<<Thus begins an almost incomprehensible post, so disconnected in not only its spelling and grammar, but in its thought process, and so loaded with cliches and accusations that bear little semblance to reality, that one wonders not only WHY you're trying to make a case, but WHAT that case is about.>. Why attack someone's spelling and grammar? Way to personal Arstogas ...these boards are for discussions and opinions, not personal attacks. <<Again, so filled with hyperbole, that the grammatical and other problems pale in comparison. And this is only emblematic of the emptiness of your FURTHER posts on the subject, ALL of which exist in protest of the very EXISTENCE of this thread, and its purpose, which were well articulated by both Darkbeer and Modhatter. If you can't see that, maybe it's time to join whatever school your kids go to, and get some lessons in reading comprehension>> ^^^ Are you kidding me? And you wonder why people leave these boards. I could go on but, honestly it's not worth it. Sorry Darkbeer, but this topic has become way to personal! To the ship!
63	tangaroa Fri 10/22/2004 12:22a	Wow this does feel like old times... >But if it IS true, how can anyone say >that DCA has not been a RESOUNDING >SUCCESS? I am quite certain that in >each year since it has been open, DCA >has outdrawn every 6-Flags park in the >nation. And you would be right. But that's not the real issue. Looking purely at the attendance figures from Amusement Business the park has been getting a steady flow of customers (between 4 and 5 million). While that's not necessarily bad for a theme park in general - it's still the least attendance Disney park in the US. If you look at DCA as a little rinky regional park, like Knotts or Six Flags - then yes it is quite successful. If you look at it as a major tourist destination it fails. DCA is the only Disney park that has been beat out by Universal and Sea World in the attendance game. The real question is - if DCA is really less of a Disney park, or some mutant hybrid of Disney and Six Flags - is it really a good thing if it succeeds? If DCA is an inferior product, but it still succeeds - what does that mean for the industry as a whole? Think of Disney and their animated direct-to-video sequels. So a couple of them early on were big successes and soon the market was flooded with them. Where does feature animation stand today and how much of that is attributable to the sequels? Just because something works, that does not mean that it is a good choice for the future. The ironic thing about DCA is - with as little as they spent on the place, I'm sure there are some in the company who are REALLY glad they built the place so cheap. Could you imagine what it would have been like if they had spent 3 billion and the place flopped? Egad.
64	Darkbeer Fri 10/22/2004 12:32a	Consumer Reports ratings from May 2003 http://www.laughingplace.com/d efault.asp?WCI=MsgBoard&WCE=T-35130-P-8&Refresh=1022001633 Ok, I got a copy of the article online, so here are some tidbits, first how the ratings worked... >>The Ratings are based on a nationally representative survey of almost 2,500 people, reflecting more than 5,500 visits between November 2000 and November 2002. The number of responses ranged from 169, for SeaWorld in San Diego, Calif., to 868, for Magic Kingdom in Florida's Walt Disney World. (We didn't receive enough responses to rate any of the 16 U.S. Six Flags parks, the largest chain.)<< And here are the basic ratings for the 14 parks in order. 1. Epcot, Lake Buena Vista, Fla. Great rides and shows, and better-than-average value, make this a top pick. 2. Disney-MGM Studios, Lake Buena Vista, Fla. Great rides and shows, average value at this working set. 3. Magic Kingdom, Lake Buena Vista, Fla. Great rides and shows; average value. 4. SeaWorld, Orlando, Fla. Marine adventure park offers great shows, better-than-average value, smaller crowds. 5. Universal's Islands of Adventure, Orlando, Fla. Great rides on five "islands" with an easy-to-tour circular layout. 6. SeaWorld, San Diego, Calif. Shows better than average, but souvenir quality worse. 7. Disney's Animal Kingdom, Lake Buena Vista, Fla. The newest, largest park in Disney World offers great shows. 8. Disneyland, Anaheim, Calif. Great rides at Disney's original park, but more crowded than most others. 9. Cedar Point, Sandusky, Ohio Great action-oriented rides, but crowds and souvenirs worse than most. 10. Busch Gardens, Tampa Bay, Fla. Better-than-average rides at this adventure park cum zoo, but it's not a standout. 11. Universal Studios Florida, Orlando, Fla. Rides better than average at this working studio; value worse. 12. Knott's Berry Farm, Buena Park, Calif. Value worse than most at this mix of more than 160 rides and attractions. 13. Universal Studios Hollywood, Universal City, Calif. "World's largest movie studio and theme park" scored worse than most for value and souvenirs. 14. Disney's California Adventure, Anaheim, Calif. Shows better than average, but value worse.
65	Darkbeer Fri 10/22/2004 1:13a	More quotes from Disney (or former Disney) folks... December 2003 thread http://www.laughingplace.com/d efault.asp?WCI=MsgBoard&WCE=T-43698-P-1&Refresh=1022005247 http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/031203 /leisure_disney_roy_1.html >>CONCERN OVER THEME PARKS Eisner, he argues, has not invested in theme parks as he should, and the board of directors was ineffective. "The upkeep down in Disneyland is sickening," he said, adding that the company under Eisner had built "half a park" but charged full-park prices at California Adventure, the theme park opened next to Disneyland in Southern California.<< I said this in another thread, but wanted to bring this to the DCA specific thread.... You know, it is funny, many of us have made points like.. Disney upkeep is not what it used to be... DCA was built on the cheap DCA is a half day park / not enough to do The pricing structure is wrong, that DCA is not worth the same price as Disneyland. But many folks said we were wrong, it is nice to see that a member of the immediate Disney family agreeing with those comments.... I also want to point out, Disney has been trying to fix DCA, including the addition of ToT... But ToT is not the CURE for DCA, there is still a lot to do to make it a park that is worth close to the Disneyland price... Let's look at what Marty Sklar said at the IAPPA last mont, as reported by Jim Hill in his Thursday article.. http://www.jimhillmedia.com/ma in/index.htm >>EISNER UPDATE: I am just amazed to see how the support for Michael Eisner within the entertainment community has begun to erode. It seems like -- these days -- nobody has a kind word to say about the guy. Take -- for example -- this quote from Harvey Weinstein, the co-chairman of Miramax Pictures. When asked to describe what it's like to work with the Walt Disney Company in general (and Michael Eisner in particular) these days, Harvey had this to say: "All the great executives have been driven from the company. I think there is no camaraderie anymore, no great esprit de corps that I found earlier. I think there was more risk-taking, a more fun company. I don't know why, and it's sad that it is." And even formerly loyal lieutenants like Marty Sklar, Vice Chairman and Principal Creative Executive of Walt Disney Imagineering, have begun openly carping about how terrible it is to work at the Walt Disney Company during the waning days of the Michael Eisner era. Want proof? Take a gander at this Marty quote that an unnamed someone sent from an IAAPA seminar Sklar spoke at last month. When asked about what his thoughts were about Disney's California Adventure. Marty replied: "I think that you're nuts to build a park next to Disneyland that's half the size and charge the same amount of money."<<
66	Darkbeer Fri 10/22/2004 1:41a	Here is one of my favorite articles from July of this year... http://www.laughingplace.com/d efault.asp?WCI=MsgBoard&WCE=T-50467-P-1&Refresh=1022013517 An interesting opinion piece by Rick Aristotle Munarriz that deals with his 2 week trip out west, in which he visits DL, DCA, Knott's and more. (FYI, he is an investor in both Disney and Cedar Fair) First, lets see his thoughts on Disneyland... Quote: >>Disneyland rocked. While Tomorrowland felt hollow without Rocket Rods, Space Mountain, and the submarine voyage, Disney's original theme park was essentially the same vibrant oasis of guests, attractions, and long operating hours that it has always been during the summer.<< About right, many people complain about Tomorrowland, and with good reason.... Now, let's see his thoughts on DCA... Quote: >>Across the way, the same couldn't be said for Disney California Adventure. A lot has been written about the shortcomings of Disney's second West Coast park. Sadly, it's all true. It remains an incomplete destination. It opens later and closes earlier than its sister park as a silent bow of admission that it is not a full-day park. The park's newest attraction, a scaled-down version of Disney World's Tower of Terror, is helping. It's the ride of choice after the rope drops at 10 a.m. A summer promotion with McDonald's got us Big Mac-consuming guests in an hour early, which proved to be plenty of time to knock off three quick rides on the new attraction before the rest of the park opened, but why did Disney give in to the cloning process? It's not a regional operator like Six Flags that can afford to dilute the magnetism of a new ride by copying it. Why would the masses that have already experienced the ride in Florida over the past 10 years head out to California? California Adventure has just one worthwhile original attraction, but that distinction will vanish once Soarin' Over California opens in Florida next year. Yes, attendance is bouncing back at the park after horrifically sandbagged levels, but rather than wonder whether the park's initial flaws were the result of the concept or the execution, one is left wondering why Disney continues to open incomplete parks. Isn't it humiliating enough to have to list strolling characters as park attractions on the official website?<< But some of the most interesting comments dealt with Knott's Berry Farm... Quote: >>Tied up in Knott's We had chosen to make Knott's our hub for the first half of our trip. Cedar Fair is cool enough to furnish its investors with discounts at the adjacent Radisson, and the central location made it ideal to check out other area attractions before hitting the park for a couple of hours after the school groups board their yellow buses and move on. The park itself is an endearing showcase of contrasts. You have a low-capacity stagecoach ride powered by four live horses galloping past spinning flat rides and tower-drop thrill rides. Trains and gold mine railcars circle gently around on their rustic tracks while a half-dozen varied roller coasters take a more adrenaline-fueled approach. We weren't catching the park at its finest hour. A walled-off lake was drained as the park was laying down the groundwork for its next coaster. It forced the closing of two minor attractions and created a bottleneck at the entrance, but as a unit holder, I accepted it as short-term pain for long-term gain. I relished the enthusiastic ride operators, and we had such a good time that we wound up spending more days at Knott's than we did at the two Disney parks combined.<< WOW, his family decided to spend more time at Knott's than Disneyland and DCA combined....... Quote: >>However, it did fall short in some ways from the standards set at Cedar Point's peninsular thrill haven. There was no complimentary ride reservation system like the flagship park's FreeWay option. Some of the attractions weren't being run at full capacity despite queues that warranted that. At Cedar Point, the Midway Market buffet is a quality eatery, while Knott's Auntie Pasta's smorgasbord is a culinary disaster. When Cedar Point's new coaster proved to be temperamental last summer, the website provided daily updates. Over at Knott's, its newest coaster was down for three weeks, yet it was still being touted on the park's site as a featured attraction. Truth be told, earlier this week the Knott's site even had rides listed that have been closed for months. Yet we also appreciated the wider variety of rides at Knott's. That park was shadier too, save for the incomprehensibly uncovered overflow area at the tiny pass-processing office. While I'm not sure how -- or even if -- the ride closings and in-park construction will hurt the 2004 summer season, the park is sprucing itself up nicely for a knockout 2005.<< While I like the FreeWay system at Cedar Point, it is a bit of a pain, you get in line between 10 and 10:30 AM to get a hand stamp at 11 AM (Heck, a one hour wait beats a three hour wait), I don't see it working at Knott's, there is no real need for it, as the queue's usually move fairly quickly. As for Auntie Pasta's, if you are looking for All you can eat Pizza and Pasta, plus Salad, it is OK for a family. I much prefer the Ghost Town Grill or the Chicken Dinner restuarant for meal choices. Or even Amber Waves at the Radisson.
67	Darkbeer Fri 10/22/2004 1:58a	Let's close this Blast to the Past with one of the CLASSIC news articles, this one from January of 2001, just before DCA opened... http://www.laughingplace.com/d efault.asp?WCI=MsgBoard&WCE=T-52733-P-1&Refresh=1022014925 >>Senior Disney officials acknowledge that there will be days when California Adventure will have to turn patrons away, particularly in the first weeks after the park opens, during spring break and again in the summer. Disney hopes those denied entry will stay at the resort and visit Disneyland and the new Downtown Disney's shops and restaurants. The risks are that people may flee the resort and those who do get inside California Adventure on crowded days will feel cheated out of experiencing a full range of attractions. Company projections show Magic Kingdom attendance falling by 500,000 per year, to about 13.3 million, and California Adventure visits rising to 7 million. Thousands more visitors each week are expected to stop by Downtown Disney, which has no admission fee. Separate admission is needed for Disneyland and California Adventure; each one charges $43 for general admission and $33 for children 3 to 9.
68	oc_dean Fri 10/22/2004 2:02a	>>.....will feel cheated out of experiencing a full range of attractions.<< Well, they got one part right! ;)
69	Mrs Nurmi Fri 10/22/2004 6:50a	<<And I find it ludicrous that someone living in BRITISH COLUMBIA assumes any kind of perspective on a park that he may have stepped in less than just about anyone else commenting on this board, and clearly a person whose disconnect from the stated principles of the discussion is so evident it's become almost embarrassing.>> How dare you assume that simply because of our distance from the park, that makes any OPINION - and I do want to make that clear - any less valid? Guess what? We're AP holders too. It's not like we live in Chechnya, pal. By resorting to name calling, you've completely negated any point you were trying to make. I think we can all see which post is 'less intelligent'. Darkbeer has brought up some really interesting points. Not sure that I buy the intent of the power point presentation (not that I doubt that you *have* it, I just can't say that I agree with the interpretation of it), but I can see where it may be interpreted as 'failing' in the simplest definition of the word. But it's a glass half empty kind of view. I like DCA. We spend a fair amount of time there when we do visit. I choose to see the park for its wonderful qualities, instead of focusing on what needs work. I've got a list of things I'd like to see changed in Disneyland, but I don't let that deter me from visiting. My glass is half full. I'll even go as far as three quarters full. I'm *glad* that we don't live any closer to the parks. I think that gives us a unique perspective that would be lost in frequent visits. I would rather be an overly simplistic Pollyanna, fooled by the evil heirarchy of the Disney Executives into enjoying their 'substandard' park, than an embittered daily visitor. (And before I'm slammed, NO that is not directed towards ANYONE in particular. Just an observation)
70	planodisney Fri 10/22/2004 2:27p	Some of you just have no idea how ridiculous you sound. You act as if Disney owes you something. They dont owe you anything. For whatever reason, they built the park that they felt they could build at the time to turn DLR into more of a resort. I am surethat if the park is as big of a failure as people on here say, then they feel alot worse about things than you do. I just cant explain how funny I find it that many on here act as if it was a slap in the face to TRUE Disney fans such as yourselves to build a park that doesnt meet your standards. Once again, I must say that Disney doesnt owe you anything. I am sure that if some on these boards can search up past articles to prove that DCA isnt doing as well as predicted, then those in power at Disney know it also. They will attempt to improve DCA over time, according to how their budget enables them to do so. Yes, DCA may not be the park that many of you TRUE Disney fans feel that you deserved, but you at least got another park, an expansion of the resort that over time will pay off in customer satisfaction to the resort. I venture to say that in 10 years from now, noone will be saying DCA sucks and that they will never set foot in that park. In the next 10 years I would imagine that DCA will have at least 2 more e-tickets and 2 more d-tickets. It sounds like 1 of each is actually already in the works. I actually believe that in the next 10 years that DCA will either have completed an expansion with a knew land or it will be under way. I think that they will have had to learn their lesson and do this expansion up right. I realy dont see what there is to complain about. If there was no DCA, then it isnt like you would have DisneySea or something, you would have nothing. I understand that some of you feel like having ToT, Soarin, Screamin, ITTBAB, Animation and GRR is like having nothing, but the grat thing is you can just make that left to the park that you truly love, as do I, and not go to DCA until it meets your standards. While those of us who do enjoy the park can partake in both, and also get excited about future attractions and expansion.

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