DCA, Future Expansion
Topic: Why is Disney's California Adventure a failure?

#	Author	Message
71	Badger Fri 10/22/2004 3:39p	Next trip to "The Failure" scheduled for March. Here's to short lines.
72	Darkbeer Fri 10/22/2004 3:39p	^ Quick comment, if there was no DCA, then we would have some new attractions at Disneyland, since the "heroin monkey" would be off DLR's back....
73	ModHatter Fri 10/22/2004 3:47p	I'm amazed that the people who took a thread and decided that, because they disagreed with some word choices, decided this was a bashing thread -- then started bashing the thread, AND acted all insulted because their own bashing was bashed. And for RoadTrip to accuse anyone of being nasty, after telling people he would get drunk and run them over... As has been stated, the Tokyo Disney properties have indeed met their attendance projections. And, let's throw out the 9/11 argument. Demonstrate that DCA was anywhere near its projected attendance before that, if you can. Most of the research I've done shows Disneyland more or less recovering within a few weeks. So, there's more going on that is specific to DCA.
74	ModHatter Fri 10/22/2004 4:00p	Dark, you make an interesting point. What if, instead of DCA, any of the original rides planted there were plunked down in Disneyland itself? Screamin would have been deemed unworthy. For that matter, include everything in Paradise Pier. GRR is a maybe. Soarin, possibly. Arguably pieces of HPB. BUT... is it worth double the park admission? Why is it that a park roughly the same size as Disneyland can't meet its projected attendance, which is significantly lower than Disneyland's?
75	onlyme Fri 10/22/2004 4:03p	Ya know, I've heard numerous inferences made to some type of 'DCA War' that occurred on these boards before my arrival on LP. I guess I'm glad I missed all of that......or maybe the 'war' has been ignited again.
76	thenurmis Fri 10/22/2004 5:26p	"pompous, ill-informed and presumptive".... "ridiculously simplistic and shallow"...."odious"..."filled with hyperbole"..."clearly a person whose disconnect from the stated principles of the discussion is so evident it's become almost embarrassing"... Dear Arstrogas Thanks for all the kind words, you truly are a well versed man, I'm very flattered that you have taken the time out of your busy schedule to fully and compleatly insult me in the manor you did. If my poor spelling offends, I do feel bad for you, if my opinions differ, and they offend , again I'm sorry. That being said I might sudjest that you use your vast vocabulary, and sharp mind more in the style of ModHatter, Darkbeer, or others who took my "challange" and countered with well thought out, well researched, and non personal responces. Please do not take this as an attack, but I might sudjest you think befor you post, as what words you choose, insults you throw, paint a picture of you that may unjustly make you look far more of a 'snob" than you may be. Worse than that they do not inforce your argument in any manor, but in many ways discredit it. I am always happy to read your opinions, as I am happy to read every one elces, I don't always agree, but I do try not to personally attack people.
77	thenurmis Fri 10/22/2004 5:47p	ModHatter I will never feel insulted if you bash my thread or comments, really they are, or tend to be very opinionated, (and as such warrent a certain amount of "slapping about") I am in no way insulted by the challanges to my comments, (or for that mater the personal shots) I in fact injoy having my ideas read and countered. It's fun in most ways. I just think that the personal shots do more damage to the shooters case, than the targets. I do read a lot of the comments on this thread as "bashing", that is my take. I have stated that I don't think that a lot of the comments were ment to be as negative as they could be taken. but I do beleave that they come of in a very "con-DCA" manor. I don't think that it is a stretch to say that you are not a big fan of the park, and would have rather seen something elce in it's place. It is a thought shared by many, but I don't think all. In fact I would say that most who go injoy the California themed creation. Does that make you felling towards the park wrong, no I don't think so. It does make them diffrent from mine, and that can be fun in a discussion board kind of way. So many of the quotes I read about DCA (spec. from Disney "big shots") tend to come from people who are on their way, or already outed. I have a hard time taking alot of the comments as little more than sour grapes. I am not saying all the comments, just most. I also have a hard time siding with the idea that because the parks attendance didn't match with planning, that makes the opperation a failure. I havn't looked at my shareholder report, (not that I really beleave them too much anyway) nore do I have access to book keeping to see how far the park is in the black/red or if it's sales are trending up or down. What I do know is I injoy the place greatly. I find magic in it and I see it improving every time I go. ( 1 or 2 trips a year, about a week or two long). Any way I am rambling a bit , but the point I do truly want to make is please feel free to smash any comment I make in to a thousand pieces, your points for and against topics (like Arstogas, Darkbeer and others) are a lot of fun for me to read. I really don't mind the fun.
78	planodisney Fri 10/22/2004 6:21p	I think the past proves your assumption that if there was no DCA, we would have a bunch of new attractions at Disneyland, to be completely inaccurate. There is no way you would have a bunch of new attractions. I venture to say that Disneyland would look little different than it does right now. Since DCA, it has gotten POOH, Buz and is getting a vastly improved Space Mountain. That, I believe is more than it recieved in the years since Indiana.
79	ModHatter Fri 10/22/2004 6:37p	Well, I'm going to make this brief... the preponderance of evidence suggests that, even if every person who goes to DCA loves it to pieces, it is not getting enough people to come. The inability to meet attendance goals starts before people ever get near the park. And, as a matter of fact, I think of DCA as another DMGMIt could have been fine as a half-day park. But, by pricing it and selling it as a full-price (and in the minds of most therefore full-day) park, Pandora's Box has been opened. There are things that will never be cost-effective to do now that should have been done before the park opened. (GRR is just plain backwards. Compare its position and queue placement with Disney's America plans, and Animal Kingdom.) There are things that were done less successfully than they could have been done, but are fixable. (ttbab can be taken out or relocated to allow for a deeper entry plaza, better access to Paradise Pier and what I hope will someday be Discovery Bay where Timon and Pumbaa and Pacific Wharf now are.) But DCA needs to do more than please the people who do make the decision to visit. There is a demonstrable need to have NEW people take an interest in the park, and it won't be done unless the powers that be recognize that their initial strategies have not done the job.
80	oc_dean Fri 10/22/2004 6:38p	>>I've heard numerous inferences made to some type of 'DCA War' that occurred on these boards before my arrival on LP. << ...oh .... it was quite a -LIVELY- forum .. I can assure you that!! When I became a member in May 2000 ... the next two years saw some "TOO DARN HOT" numbers!! ;-)

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