DCA, Future Expansion
Topic: Why is Disney's California Adventure a failure?

#	Author	Message
81	thenurmis Fri 10/22/2004 6:45p	LOL yes there were some fun times eh futurist ; ) I really do enjoy the banter, arguments and passion. and since there is no NHL happening this year I have to see some hits some where. "ttbab can be taken out or relocated to allow for a deeper entry plaza" sorry ModHatter, but what is ttbab?
82	oc_dean Fri 10/22/2004 7:06p	>>arguments and passion<< That's an understatement! ;) ttbab I think he/she is refering to: The "It's Tough to be a Bug" 3D show
83	arstogas Fri 10/22/2004 8:00p	>>>You could have countered thenurmis' arguments without being so nasty about it. Ability to spell-check does not translate to validity of opinion.<<< No, but ability to articulate a comprehensible argument DOES. And in this case, that certainly did not happen, as Darkbeer has completely and soundly demonstrated in the ensuing posts. Call it a personal attack if you wish, but the lack of respect accorded the rest of posters here who DO attempt to communicate in some kind of lucid fashion, is definitely an attack on the senses and shows a disregard for common communicative courtesy. >>>How dare you assume that simply because of our distance from the park, that makes any OPINION - and I do want to make that clear - any less valid? Guess what? We're AP holders too. It's not like we live in Chechnya, pal.<<< It's a discussion board. Your opinion is as suspect as anyone else's who might display such a lack of clear understanding of the issues pertinent to the discussion at hand, instead of the silly and superficial comments and insinuations made earlier, hardly worth repeating again. >>>By resorting to name calling, you've completely negated any point you were trying to make. I think we can all see which post is 'less intelligent'.<<< Oh, please, what name calling are you referring to? Please, list the "names", so that we can indeed examine the quality of their veracity. I questioned the quality and accuracy and communicative CLARITY of the statements posed. Not once did I rough you or your hubby up in an undeserved manner. Otherwise, please quit the very REAL attacks that you offer instead of an intelligent reply to the very real counters to your silly assertions. If you're going to post ridiculously unsound statements, if you're going to accuse OTHERS of calling Michael Eisner this or that, then get ready to get an earful from persons who take an objection to your intellectual dishonesty. >>>Dear Arstrogas<<< Thanks, by the way, for taking absolutely NO time at all to spell my name correctly. What lovely respect you show yourself, as you try to give me a lesson in the same. >>>Thanks for all the kind words, you truly are a well versed man, I'm very flattered that you have taken the time out of your busy schedule to fully and compleatly insult me in the manor you did.<<< I've taken the time to point out a shallow argument delivered in a manner that serves only to UNDERSCORE the lack of crediblity of the words. If you take it as insult, then spend more TIME considering what you post and how. You're clearly not doing that yet, so obviously the concept is lost on you. >>>That being said I might sudjest that you use your vast vocabulary, and sharp mind more in the style of ModHatter, Darkbeer, or others who took my "challange" and countered with well thought out, well researched, and non personal responces.<<< It serves nothing to duplicate territory covered by those two very solid posters, when they clearly avoid the issue of the strident nature of your insults to the rest of us. I remind you that YOU were first to insult those on this board, and I can point you very quickly to those ridiculous and spurious comments in a heartbeat. I'm sure you don't need me to. YOU began this nonsense, and then exacerbated the dialogue by whining about being attacked, and with posts that are almost unreadable, apparently because you didn't respect the community here enough to do even a CURSORY check of your statements. >>>as what words you choose, insults you throw, paint a picture of you that may unjustly make you look far more of a 'snob" than you may be.<<< My point is not here to reinforce "my argument" as others are doing that quite well for me. And I frankly don't care if you or anyone else considers me a snob. My concern is that when you come into a thread, whose STATED PURPOSE is to analyze the concept of DCA as a QUANTIFIABLE FAILURE - and there is NO way that an intelligent person could have deduced this as the purpose and theme - and then, KNOWING THIS, STILL BEGIN to openly insult and assault other posters at will, you will most certainly not get away with such callous, shallow, demeaning, self-aggrandizing behavior. Yes, I'm the evil one here... I'm attacking you... I'm the villain. My sole crime is in pointing out that your posts were not welcome, nor appropriate, nor even well-considered, and definitely laughable in execution. You return as a victim. You are not a victim. You have assaulted my friends here, and I don't intend for you to get away with it that easily. I'd do that and HAVE done that for others here who have been attacked or unfairly prodded, including people I usually DON'T agree with, like Hans. One thing I won't abide, and that's a hypocritical bruiser.
84	arstogas Fri 10/22/2004 8:05p	>>>I'm amazed that the people who took a thread and decided that, because they disagreed with some word choices, decided this was a bashing thread -- then started bashing the thread, AND acted all insulted because their own bashing was bashed. And for RoadTrip to accuse anyone of being nasty, after telling people he would get drunk and run them over...<<< Thank you, Modhatter. Once again, much more succinct and clear than I tend to be. Well expressed. You want to get my passion up? Come into a thread and start bashing the central tenet of the thread. It's such a bombastically haughty and arrogant thing to do, so lacking in disrespect to the original poster and those who are ENGAGING in accord with the original poster... >>>I am in no way insulted by the challanges to my comments, (or for that mater the personal shots) I in fact injoy having my ideas read and countered. It's fun in most ways. I just think that the personal shots do more damage to the shooters case, than the targets.<<< Wow. If you're going to accuse me of name-calling, you might as well add "clueless" and "obtuse" to the list.
85	tangaroa Fri 10/22/2004 8:57p	>You act as if Disney owes you >something. They dont owe you anything. Reminds me of that Simpsons episode with Poochy the dog. Comic Book guy says "Worst Episode Ever" and Bart follows up with a long speech about how they are providing free entertainment and they don't owe the fans anything. As Bart says "if anything YOU owe them." To which Comic Book Guy responds again: "Worst Episode Ever." In fact: Disney DOES owe its fan something. By being a fan these people have pledged to pay extra special attention to Disney, and when justified spend extra dollars there. In return Disney has to offer a quality product. It's a form of unwritten agreement. If Disney doesn't offer a quality product then you're right - the fans should feel free to abandon their allegiance and stop patronizing Disney's businesses. But like all agreements Disney makes, there comes a time when Disney tries to weasel out of it and take big liberties on what was actually meant. The people at Disney have no problem looking people in the eye and saying that Cinderella 2 is of the same quality as the original classic. They have no problem saying Disney Channel offers quality entertainment or that the Disney Stores offer quality merchandise. And they definitely have no problem saying DCA is just as good as every other Disney park in the world. Is it true? I don't think so. I don't believe any of it. Disney doesn't offer quality products and in return you have a bunch of fans crying foul. Sure it would be better for all of us to just give up on Disney and watch as the company slowly goes bankrupt - but does anyone want to see that? >I just cant explain how funny I find >it that many on here act as if it was >a slap in the face to TRUE Disney fans >such as yourselves to build a park >that doesnt meet your standards. Don't you think it's a bad thing for Disney to offer an inferior product and tell consumers that it's just as good as what they have offered before? I know you may not think DCA is inferior to DL, but surely you have to realize that a lot of people out there feel that DCA isn't as good as Disneyland. And if you feel DCA isn't as good as Disneyland, then shouldn't that be a cause for concern? At what point does the inferior quality start to affect you? OK so DCA doesn't bother you, but what if Disney built a park that was just Paradise Pier? What if they built a park that was a direct copy of Six Flags? What if they just built a carnival in the parking lot and charged 50 bucks for it. What would be your breaking point? >Yes, DCA may not be the park that many >of you TRUE Disney fans feel that you >deserved, but you at least got another >park, an expansion of the resort that >over time will pay off in customer >satisfaction to the resort. DCA will only become a successful park when Disney listens to the fans. They've done this in some ways already. I agree that one day DCA will be a successful park - but only at such a point that it is completely unrecognizable from the park that opened in 2001 - and from all the rumors swirling around TDA we may be closer to that time than ever before.
86	WDW1974 Fri 10/22/2004 8:59p	^^^You're obtuse and clueless ... there, someone said it ;-) I was just saying the other day that we haven't had a good 'Why DCA sucks' thread in a long time ... I'm enjoying reading the same things. Good thing I have short-term memory loss. Since we're all repeating the same things, I'll repeat what I've said ... DCA is sooooooo much better than the Disney-MGM Studios even if it was built as a mall.
87	planodisney Fri 10/22/2004 8:59p	Mod, I totally agree with your last post, but I dont think a radical expansion is coming for a few years. They are probably going to build a couple more e-tickets and family attractions to keep the park gradually growing until they can budget the money for expansion and some overhauling. But, to bring in an additional 2 0r 3 million guests a year, they are going to have to do something eye popping. I think in time it will happen. But, until then, this park isnt nearly as terrible as some on this board want everyone to believe. I honestly think that Disney must have built this park on holy ground, because some on this board seem to have realy had their itty bitty feelings hurt by the building of it.
88	onlyme Fri 10/22/2004 9:09p	arstogas.......remind me not to get 'on your bad side' ;)
89	WDW1974 Fri 10/22/2004 9:14p	<<^^^You're obtuse and clueless ... there, someone said it ;-)>> That was a joke targeted at Arstogas, but Tang's post hit in the middle. But what a post it was. You offer a great reasoned explanation behind the watering down of the Disney product in general, and how it applies to DCA in particular. I've been arguing many of the same points on the WDW Boards on and off. The biggest difference is over there you have a lot more folks overdosed on pixie dust. Much like in Orlando you have a less discerning theme park guest who's willing to spend thousands of dollars for a WDW vacation under the mistaken impression that more equals better.
90	planodisney Fri 10/22/2004 9:19p	tang, I dont understand why you came up with the assumption that I think DCA is as good as Disneyland. That would be completely idiotic. DCA is not even close to as good as Disneyland, and I totally understand that. I do understand your concerns, honestly. I just think that some peoples concerns might be a little bit overblown. Also, DCA isnt the only park not as good as Disneyland. I just got back from WDW and I can tell you that MGM is a corpse. I much prefer DCA, and I think the future looks much brighter than MGM's. I am getting off of the subject a little here, but I honestly enjoy DCA's version of ToT better. Honestly, I am not being biased. The 5th dimension blew me away on my first visit, because you just cant believe that your elevator is moving forward. Upon this return trip, I knew what was coming so I wasnt awed, I just focussed on the actual 5th dimension rom itsel, and it is pittiful. Realy terrible execution. Its almost as if they added light in there and now you can see all the wiring and boxes. Realy, realy bad. After the ride, I honestly thought to myself that I like the DCA version better, and that saying something because the MGM ToT, and Magic Kingdom Splash were my favorite attractions anywhere. Anyway, the only arguement I have with you tang, is that I dont think that Disney actually intended to give the fans a park that sucked and hoped that nobody would notice. I actually just think they miscalculated and screwed up. But, I honestly think that in the not too distant future that we will all look back and be happy that the expansion took place. Also, good to see you on the boards, I havent noticed you posting for a while.

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