Tokyo Disneyland
Topic: New Dreamlights floats coming March 17

#	Author	Message
21	SuperDry Sat 2/3/2007 12:21p	<<< Did you enjoy the design asthetics of it SD? I applaud the energy of the show but the overall look just left me perplexed. >>> The energy was certainly great. I liked the music as well. As far as design, I don't quite know what to say. I suspect that you look at these things much like a film critic or filmmaker might watch a movie - you'll be looking for a totally different thing than the average person would, considering your involvement in the industry. I think I might just take it in, decide whether I like it or perhaps "whether it speaks to me" without thinking about it too much, and then after the fact try to figure out why I came to my decision (whether the decision was thumbs-up or thumbs-down). I suspect that you are apt to look at specific things like design, judge it based on that criteria, and then based on that decide whether you like it or not overall (or at least, more apt to do so than I am). Not that that's good or bad - it's just different. It's hard for me to comment on overall design because so much of the parade was focused on show stops. Let me comment on that for a moment. I only saw it once, and it was only my third TDR parade that I had seen that featured show stops. The first one was the 2005 Halloween parade. I didn't realize at the time I saw it that it had show stops, and watched it from the very first viewing area just after it comes on stage, across from the Haunted Mansion. It was mildly interesting for what it was, but it was over in like 12 minutes, and I thought "That's all?" Only after getting home (perhaps by seeing the video on jtcent.com) did I realize that there were show stops. That's why it seemed underwhelming to me - I had effectively missed the core part of the show! Getting back to Stitch, I hadn't even really planned to see the parade. I was in the park just wandering around for the morning before heading into town, and happened to find a good spot just as the parade was starting. So the portion of the parade that I saw during the stop, and which stop it was, was just by chance. I really enjoyed the small portion that I saw, and it makes me curious as to what the others are like. And perhaps that's one of the things the designers did on purpose: if you see it once and like it, you want to come back and see it again, as there's probably a dozen different shows to see depending on where you sit. This is completely different than something like the normal daytime parade, which is basically the same show every time no matter where you sit.
22	leemac Sat 2/3/2007 12:56p	<<you'll be looking for a totally different thing than the average person would, considering your involvement in the industry.>> I don't know about that. :-) I take your point though. For me the design sensibility was just apalling. Horrific actually. I've always found that the TDR product that really works is an interpretation of a look. I really did enjoy Style! at TDS although the show stop was a disaster (apart from the music). The problem was that Med Harbor is just a terrible stage for a performance corridor. That nixed the show rather than the actual parade itself. That is why I have such huge issues with a lot of the TDR product like the abysmal Minnie O Minnie, One Man's Dream II and Over the Waves. There is no real creativity there. It is just performers and characters running around. I don't expect every show to be like Aladdin at DCA, Lion King at DLP and Nemo at DAK but there is a good middle ground that TDR should be inhabiting. It is no surprise to me that only 2 shows have been kept intact since opening: Mermaid and Mystic Rhythms. Both are interpretations. The former has a terrible script but the aerial theater-in-the-round concept is the big draw as is the incredible Curry puppets like Ursula. The latter may be a weird Cirque rip-off but it does work (and I can't explain it). That is why I get so frustrated to see an incredible facility like the Broadway sitting there and playing host to nonsense like Big Band Beat (albeit entertaining nonsense). I'm just amazed that for a country that loves musical theater that OLC hasn't pushed for something.... grander. I find it so ironic that people talk about the dumbing down of the product at the US parks but don't see a worse case at TDR. Strange to me.
23	SuperDry Sat 2/3/2007 2:01p	Re #22, there's so much to comment on. <<< I've always found that the TDR product that really works is an interpretation of a look. >>> That's exactly the kind of thing that I'm talking about. Such a distinction is simply not something that would ever occur to me to think about one way or the other, but now that you've mentioned it, you may be on to something. I always like uncovering why certain things work for me and others don't. <<< I really did enjoy Style! at TDS although the show stop was a disaster (apart from the music). >>> It's funny you should mention this. Of all the things that have happened at TDR since I started really paying attention to it in 2003 and that I missed, Style! is the one that I most regret not seeing. I've seen low- bitrate online video of it, which of course doesn't do any live performance justice, but one thing that did come through was the music. I found parts of the music mesmerizing, which would seemingly be very hard to pull off in an outdoor daytime setting. I was really hoping that they would bring it back the next year and I would have made a point to see it, but they didn't. Oh well. <<< the abysmal Minnie O Minnie, One Man's Dream II >>> You'll get no argument with me over those two stinkers. For OMD2, it was mildly interesting to sit through once, but I don't think I'd ever see it again. But MoM was, to borrow one of your phrases, horrific. I was literally checking my watch, wondering how much longer it could go on. <<< Over the Waves. >>> This one surprised me. I was expecting to not like it based on some things I read online, but it wasn't half bad. In particular, I was skeptical about the use of pop music, but they did a good job with it. I'll probably see it again sometime, especially considering that I was standing in the back as I got there just as it was starting, so I didn't have the best view. And, there was this little girl right behind me sitting on her dad's shoulder, saying "Minnie-chan!" very loudly every 5 seconds whenever Minnie was visible on stage, so that was a bit distracting. <<< I don't expect every show to be like Aladdin at DCA, Lion King at DLP and Nemo at DAK but there is a good middle ground that TDR should be inhabiting. >>> I've only seen Aladdin and Lion King (at HKDL), but I understand what you're getting at. I realize that the various shows are on different scales, and that there really isn't the pretense that MoM is an anchor attraction like Mermaid or Mystic Rhythms are. But does it have to be that bad? :-). Considering its apparent hard-core fanbase, perhaps it's just oriented toward a particular aspect of the local market that's just not going to be understood by us outsiders (well, not by most of us at least). I don't know quite what to make of it. The reaction I had to MoM in a way reminded me of what I thought of Food Rocks - I came out of it with a funny look on my face, thinking "they can't possibly be serious with that, can they?" But they were serious. And yes, I do realize that Food Rocks had an educational aspect to it that MoM doesn't, but I'm talking beyond that aspect. Regarding the Cirque "rip-off" of Mystic Rhythms, I don't think that's a negative. By and large, the Japanese audience is far less familiar with Cirque than western and especially American audiences are, so the whole concept seems very new and different to them. Considering that even the most expensive ticket to the park (single day with no discount) is far less than a ticket to a 90-minute Cirque performance, I think that shows like this make TDS a very good value for the money, as do shows of similar quality at other Disney parks. <<< nonsense like Big Band Beat (albeit entertaining nonsense). I'm just amazed that for a country that loves musical theater that OLC hasn't pushed for something.... grander. >>> I missed that one. Your statement above is a bit odd, considering that I think it was actually you that shared with us that BBB was considered to be a temporary place-holder until Snow Queen was ready, but SQ got put on hold only because BBB was so popular. I suppose another way to look at it would be to save money, but of course they're going to save money if they have an unexpected hit in BBB and can avoid finishing a more elaborate production and can instead put the money elsewhere - it's not as if SQ can't come to fruition once BBB has run its course in popularity. Personally, I was disappointed to hear SQ being tabled, as I'm somewhat of a Menken fan. I'll just have to settle for the new Sindbad I guess. <<< I find it so ironic that people talk about the dumbing down of the product at the US parks but don't see a worse case at TDR. Strange to me. >>> Well, it's all relative. Just look at the four things that I mentioned in my timeline earlier in this thread that are happening within a 2-month period at TDR, and compare this with the US parks. Although there have been cutbacks at TDR, there still seems to be very much a commitment to the basics such as cleanliness, maintenance, and just all-around "good show" that are becoming increasingly lacking in the US parks so that certain financial targets can be met. <<< There is no real creativity there. It is just performers and characters running around. >>> I think I know what you're feeling. What you said is perhaps exactly how I would describe what I felt about the parade I saw at USJ last summer. There was music and performers in costume, but they were all just running around. I was very underwhelmed. Although very kinetic, it just seemed lifeless and without a soul. And, what occurred to me at the time is that this is perhaps how many adults that don't "get" Disney parks view Disney parks - and if that's how they see them, then this would explain how they just don't "get" why we like them so much.
24	leemac Sat 2/3/2007 4:05p	<<Considering that even the most expensive ticket to the park (single day with no discount) is far less than a ticket to a 90-minute Cirque performance, I think that shows like this make TDS a very good value for the money, as do shows of similar quality at other Disney parks.>> That is precisely Anne Hamburger's mission at DCE: to give people a taste of Broadway-calibre musicals without necessarily mounting a Broadway musical (if that makes sense). It introduces the format to a whole new audience. How many visitors to DAK will see Nemo daily? (I can tell you the number will be 6,800-plus standing room). How many of those will have never visited New York and seen a classic Broadway musical? I suspect a huge percentage. The cumulative daily audience that will see Nemo is higher than all of Disney Theatricals' product on the Great White Way. Incredible. It makes it all accessible. The great thing is that not all of the product has to be like Nemo. There is plenty of room for stuff like HSM Pep Rally (a very cute show and monster-popular at D-MGM even though it still isn't in the Times Guide; last week we saw people camped out for 45 minutes-plus before the "unscheduled" first show) and Dream Along with Mickey (a cute show for a family castle stage show).
25	leemac Sat 2/3/2007 4:06p	<<SQ got put on hold only >> Snow Queen has gone. I don't think it will ever be staged, anywhere.
26	leemac Sat 2/3/2007 4:10p	<<What you said is perhaps exactly how I would describe what I felt about the parade I saw at USJ last summer.>> Thankfully I will never step foot inside USJ. Unlikely I'll visit any of the three US parks either in the near future. But then I'm not a theme park fan. I'm a Disney theme park enthusiast. I do think that a large number of TDR shows are all flash and no substance but that is what seems to work for their core audience. MoM I don't get. It is just a weird re-incarnation of the previous Adventureland Mardi Gras which was better. They just tie themselves to the venue too closely. It is an outdoor theater that happens to be in Adventureland. If doesn't have to be tied to the New Orleans theme all the time. OMDII is a bigger disaster for me. As bad as MoM but with no script at all. As I've said before I honestly can think of only one positive: the Tuck 'n' Roll character. Nothing else even registered.
27	leemac Sat 2/3/2007 4:14p	<<Just look at the four things that I mentioned in my timeline earlier in this thread that are happening within a 2-month period at TDR, and compare this with the US parks.>> I guess that just goes to show the fanaticism. My personal belief is if you can't do something well then don't do it at all. Too many of the TDR special events are just trite character fillers for me. Lido Isle Meet 'n' Smile is a case in point. Terrible 5th anniversary show with the most syrupy song I've ever heard. Plain awful. But it is still there and people run to the Isle and wait 1-2 hours for the show. Each to their own. It has never been about quantity over quality for me and I honestly believe that OLC feels the need to constantly churn out the former to attract guests. But boy do they know their audience. The question will be as their audience ages (which it is at an alarming rate) whether they can still produce the product. I'm skeptical.
28	SuperDry Sat 2/3/2007 4:15p	<<< Snow Queen has gone. I don't think it will ever be staged, anywhere. >>> Although I know next to nothing about Snow Queen specifically, I'm still somehow disappointed. It sounded intriguing, even if I can't quite put my finger on exactly why. <<< That is precisely Anne Hamburger's mission at DCE: to give people a taste of Broadway-calibre musicals without necessarily mounting a Broadway musical (if that makes sense). >>> I don't know much about the specifics, but somehow what you say makes me think of the recent Snow White production at DL, which in my opinion thought very highly of itself and was full of pretentiousness. I'm really in favor of what you describe, but not when it gets to the point that this notion is apparent to a lay audience member in a condescending manner. <<< There is plenty of room for stuff like HSM Pep Rally (a very cute show and monster-popular at D-MGM even though it still isn't in the Times Guide; last week we saw people camped out for 45 minutes-plus before the "unscheduled" first show) >>> Well, the notion that people would camp out 45 minutes before an unscheduled show should seem quite mild to you, based on your experience at TDR.
29	leemac Sat 2/3/2007 4:19p	<<I realize that the various shows are on different scales, and that there really isn't the pretense that MoM is an anchor attraction like Mermaid or Mystic Rhythms are. But does it have to be that bad? :-).>> I'm not sure the word "anchor" is the right one to use. It is more a question of the number of venues. TDL effectively only has the Orleans venue and Showbase. That is it. At least Showbase as the larger "indoor" venue should have a top-calibre show. TDS has numerous theaters on various scales but the Hangar Stage and Broadway are massive auditoria. Both should have long term productions that wow audiences. The former probably still does (although Mystic is aging and there is no replacement in the near future) whilst the latter has a minimalistic revue show playing. I'm just disappointed that the Japanese aren't sophisicated enough to demand more than BBB. That isn't a slur against the nationality. It is more a testamony to the fact that they lap up anything that the OLC throws at them. Irrespective of quality.
30	SuperDry Sat 2/3/2007 4:21p	<<< I honestly believe that OLC feels the need to constantly churn out the former to attract guests. But boy do they know their audience. The question will be as their audience ages (which it is at an alarming rate) whether they can still produce the product. I'm skeptical. >>> Well, that's a fascinating comment, especially considering how much TWDC domestically is willing to sacrifice show and long-term loyalty in order to meet an annual or even quarterly earnings target.

All times are Pacific Time (US)

Note: Information on the discussion boards is sometimes based on rumors or incorrect information and should not be assumed true. Messages do not necessarily reflect the opinion of LaughingPlace.com or its editors.

More messages:	1-10	11-20	21-30	31-40	41-50
	51-60	61-70	71-80	81-90	91-100
	101-101

< Previous Topic

Next Topic >

You must be a registered user to post messages.
Click here to register.
After registration you will automatically be brought back to this topic

Laughing Place Podcast
The LPP crew discuss the Disney Dream cruise ship, the new TTA spiel, characters in the parks, A Christmas Carol, Prince of Persia and more plus Voicemail and the Captain's Challenge. Sponsored by HoJoAnaheim.com and MouseEarVacations.com.

What's on
The Latest
Tales covers the London premiere of A Christmas Carol
Santas See A Christmas Carol in 3D
The Making of Up with the Filmmakers
Free Disney App now Available on App Store
Disneyland Resort Creates Magic for Guests with Visual Disabilities
FAQ Regarding D23 Member Events Posted
Lots more Disney Dream cruise info and pictures
Spooky Music on Laughing Place Radio
Disney Dream Cruise Ship Details Announced
Tinker Bell Named 'Honorary Ambassador of Green' at United Nations Headquarters

Click here for The Latest