Tokyo Disneyland
Topic: New Dreamlights floats coming March 17

#	Author	Message
31	leemac Sat 2/3/2007 4:23p	<<somehow what you say makes me think of the recent Snow White production at DL, which in my opinion thought very highly of itself and was full of pretentiousness.>> I wasn't fond of it either but I'm far from a Snow White fan, period. I still think the Fantasyland Theater itself is the biggest failing. No decent production can be mounted in an outdoor venue where you have no control over the acoustics or lighting. Plus have to contend with the train whistle every cycle. A director's nightmare I would guess. But then the alternative was turning it over to WDI for the Mermaid attraction. Thankfully DL saw some merit in maintaining a sizeable theater. Now if only they can enclose it properly. Considering a decent facility can cost $30m it might be a while before we see it but at least there isn't an attraction on that pad.
32	leemac Sat 2/3/2007 4:25p	<<Well, the notion that people would camp out 45 minutes before an unscheduled show should seem quite mild to you, based on your experience at TDR.>> But attendees at the US parks are more....how can I put this...free-willed? They aren't conditioned into seeing anything irrespective of quality. The TDR guest mentality is that they have to see EVERY special event usually at the detriment to classic E-tickets like PotC which has the lowest annual attendance of the four versions in existence.
33	leemac Sat 2/3/2007 4:28p	<<It sounded intriguing, even if I can't quite put my finger on exactly why.>> A lot of CMs have suggested to me that it was immensely flawed. Formulaic Menken music (the love ballad Love Can't Be Denied has been described as this show's The Rose by more than one person) and average production values. I wasn't close to the show personally and I've only seen the mock-ups and heard the music and I liked it. Maybe OLC saw something that DCE didn't. I don't know.
34	SuperDry Sat 2/3/2007 4:35p	<<< I'm not sure the word "anchor" is the right one to use. >>> Well, let me restate what I was trying to say. With regard to TDS, I think that both the Broadway Theater and the Hangar Stage were intended to house E-ticket shows, had such a ticketing method been in force when TDS opened. I don't think the same would be said about the two TDL venues you mentioned, nor the shows currently playing. <<< I'm just disappointed that the Japanese aren't sophisicated enough to demand more than BBB. That isn't a slur against the nationality. It is more a testamony to the fact that they lap up anything that the OLC throws at them. Irrespective of quality. >>> I take issue with what you have to say. First of all, I suspect that the average TDR guest (let's call him Mr. Tanaka) cares little about the distinction between OLC, TWDC, WDI, DCE, and so on that we speak in detail about here. And I think that there are several things at TDR that indicate that Tanaka-san doesn't simply accept what is given to him. Take a look at the popularity of the old Sindbad or Encore. Just because these were presented to him doesn't mean that he thought they were worth of him standing in line for. Yet, he will do his part to fill the benches of MoM. Go figure. I think it's a bit simplistic to just say something like "there's no accounting for taste." I think that this has less to do with Tanaka accepting what OLC gives him and more to do with OLC being in tune with what TDR guests want, no matter how unappealing it may be to you and me. I think the challenge is how to accept the reality of what the local market wants while still maintaining the pixie dust to keep everything uniquely Disney and being able to maintain the magic to the local market over the long term.
35	TDLFAN Sat 2/3/2007 4:44p	>>TDL effectively only has the Orleans venue and Showbase. That is it.<< You forgot the Lucky Nugget Stage, which can very well handle a show of the size of MOM, and has before. In the past, the front of IASW was also a bonafide stage, which was taken down several years ago. TDL also currently have the outdoor Plaza Stage and the indoor stages in the Polynesian Terrace and Diamond Horseshoe Restaurant.
36	TDLFAN Sat 2/3/2007 5:21p	>>There is no real creativity there (TDR)<< Bull! Unless your idea of creativy is different than mine.. that comment dismisses the hard work that is put by the dozens of performers who give it all out day after day. The TDR shows have the best choreographies of any of the regular themepark type shows of their kind, many props to enhance the experience and great music that is original most of the time... How can you even begin to say there is no creativity there is ludicrous. Not every freaking show at TDR has to be another boring improv production like Aladdin at DCA. >>It is just performers and characters running around.<< Again, you loose credibility with silly comments like that. Face it, you are only saying that because not everything they do comes from the USA and from the minds of your insider friends. >>I'm just disappointed that the Japanese aren't sophisicated enough to demand more than BBB. That isn't a slur against the nationality. It is more a testamony to the fact that they lap up anything that the OLC throws at them. Irrespective of quality.<< And how is that different than the crowds at WDW for example? Do you think that Mr. Redneck from the hills cares about quality in the shows he happens to run across while at the MK? Please... if the american crowds at WDW expected more, they would not be going "wow!" when child-minded productions like "Dream Along with Mickey" play at the castle. The "Nemo Musical" is just ONE FLUKE in WDW's otherwise ordinary and below par show offerings. Whys isn't everypark at WDW offering something similar to that effect? The MK could never handle a show the size of OMD2 or MOM on a regular basis like the folks at TDL do. EPCOT could never put on a Mythica, and MGM/DAK could never handle the demands of shows like BBB or Mystic Rhythms...and about the latter, a show you and I know it's great..I suspect many americans would walk out on bored to death..because THAT is how the attention span of this nation ends. You, like most others, are conditioned to believe that is a show is not Broadway then it's not good enough. Well... you and them are wrong.
37	leemac Sun 2/4/2007 4:21a	<<Unless your idea of creativy is different than mine.. >> Oh our definition of creativity is definitely different. Very very different. <<The "Nemo Musical" is just ONE FLUKE in WDW's otherwise ordinary and below par show offerings.>> I very much doubt guests believe that Festival of the Lion King is "below par" so there is another one. How many other show venues are there at WDW? B&B at D-MGM is still wildly popular despite its age. Epcot doesn't have a venue capable of holding a show even close to that so that just leaves the Galaxy at MK sitting empty (again I suspect that is more due to the fact that it is outdoors). Dream Along with Mickey is okay but not great. HSM Pep Rally is kinda cute in its own way. <<Do you think that Mr. Redneck from the hills cares about quality in the shows he happens to run across while at the MK?>> I do think there is a distinction. There is a difference from a show that guests happen to stumble across and then watch and those that they plan to see. In my experience Cinderellabration rarely had a big crowd before show time. Guests either had heard enough bad things about it to skip it or were too focused on the attractions. Maybe both. I do think the average WDW guest is more discerning than those that attend TDR parks. Aging shows like TLM and B&B at D-MGM and FoTLK at DAK are perfect examples of shows that still get good crowds. At TDL especially every special event is busy. Another case in point is the freebies that the OLC feels the need to dispense to get bodies through the gates. A little charm or tag or pin on a regular basis spikes attendance as the regular guests have to have it. That is manipulation of the audience. Is that a question of social status? Do the regulars have to have EVERYTHING that TDR churns out? It certainly seems that way. I'm sure I'll be accused of being xenophobic by X again but it is nothing against the populace per se. I've seen that obsessiveness in other Asian cultures particularly in China where ladies queue up for days for the latest LV handbag in Shanghai. It is manipulation of the marketplace. To me it is cynical beyond belief but I guess it is all about their marketing plan to them.
38	leemac Sun 2/4/2007 4:23a	<<Take a look at the popularity of the old Sindbad or Encore. >> I can only say what the guest satisfaction surveys told OLC and that was that they had no idea what was inside the show building and so decided to skip it. Encore still had decent crowds (in my experience) right up until it was put out of its misery.
39	leemac Sun 2/4/2007 4:28a	<<I think it's a bit simplistic to just say something like "there's no accounting for taste.">> That is a good point SD. I don't see it as a matter of taste. I can happily live with the fact that the local audience has a totally different interpretation of taste to me. However I don't see quality as being that subjective. I don't think anyone would argue that the overall show quality of MoM and OMDII is pretty poor. Now if the guests happen to love it then that is their choice. Personally I'll never see it again. The current TDL daytime parade seems to be a mixture of both tailored taste and high quality. The floats are spectacular and the overall design is stunning. Plus it is still popular. Now is that more a testamony to the overall success of TDL or to the quality? I don't know. I think it is much easier to make that distinction next door when the park hasn't underwhelmed in attendance numbers recently. To see shows like Mystic Rhythms and Mermaid still do well is encouraging.
40	leemac Sun 2/4/2007 4:37a	<<Mystic Rhythms...and about the latter, a show you and I know it's great..I suspect many americans would walk out on bored to death..because THAT is how the attention span of this nation ends. >> I wouldn't say "great". I would say "surprisingly good". It certain has its flaws. The point of the cut 'n' paste was that I believe that statement to be far wide of the mark. If that was the case why are Cirque so insanely popular in the US? They can sell out virtually every touring show and most of their resident shows (including La Nouba) are still packing them in. I've never seen anyone leave early from La Nouba. So I totally dispute your point. Same for the Japanese audience. They love Cirque and big musical shows like Phantom, Cats and TLK. That is why I'm so confused as to why they accept such poor shows (particularly the special events) at TDR. I just wonder whether they have been conditioned over the years to accepting the very generic character shows that they pump out at TDR.

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