Walt Disney World General
Topic: Slightly Used Wand For Sale ...

#	Author	Message
131	MPierce Fri 6/8/2007 11:46a	>> Nope, nothing personal. I just think he pretends a lot and enjoys the adulation, and people there seem all to willing to offer it... which doesn't engender my respect. It feels like Nutrasweet over there. << Fair enough reply. Nice to see you back leemac. I missed your insight into things.
132	ChiMike Fri 6/8/2007 12:23p	>>The frightening thing is the impact that this refreshment has on all of the other old structures in the park.<< That was the largest thing I came away with. I was actually expecting the subs comeback to bring with it more of a cohesive visual plan for the area. I personally hope I was told correctly that it will be addressed later in an one'off fashion. >>Epcot is very close to Tom's heart and that is why he has been able to get a lot of fixes into that park: China, Mexico, Canada etc. << Which, imo, is too bad, maybe the last five pavilion (JII, Seas, Land, M:S, Mexico) updates would not have been so reliant on film and video if Epcot wasn't the benefactor of Tom's one-dimensional palate. Whereas EPCOT Center was mocked by guys like Tom for being too bloated with AAs and Omnimovers he has successfully caused the same problem with a new generation of guests coming to spend a day at Epcot staring at nothing but projections.
133	gurgitoy2 Fri 6/8/2007 12:50p	"I think ... just a complete guess at this point ... that the Indy jeep idea that Tony Baxter originally pushed for years ago at DL could be repurposed here ... " Wait, do you mean as already built at Disneyland and Tokyo DisneySea? Or was there a more spectacular version? I seem to remember early concepts winding the Jungle Cruise and the Disneyland Railroad into the Indy attraction as part of the storyline; is that what you're referring to? Although, since neither of those exist at MGM, I guess it would have to be something else? ">>The frightening thing is the impact that this refreshment has on all of the other old structures in the park.<< That was the largest thing I came away with. I was actually expecting the subs comeback to bring with it more of a cohesive visual plan for the area. I personally hope I was told correctly that it will be addressed later in an one'off fashion." This is interesting news. There are a lot of old structures in Disneyland that need replacing. Tomorrowland as a whole could stand to be completely leveled and done over. I know that's unrealistic with new attractions like Buzz just put in, but still. The Star Tours side in particular could go, since there is a major update of that attraction coming. It's just getting hard to keep shoehorning new attractions into buildings that have been there since the 1950's. Who knows what kind of stress the Rocket Rods put on the building too, and if that ever got fixed correctly or just patched up. As for the overblown budget for the Nemo subs, that doesn't surprise me either with the bloated workings of WDI. I really hope it gets better, and they can trim the fat on these things, but with such a large corporate culture, old habits die hard...
134	ChiMike Fri 6/8/2007 1:07p	^ That's why when they defer maintenance on things, or let things go SBNO (standing but not operating) they are pennywise and pound foolish. This is a perfect example. Now I applaud the lengths they have gone to modernize the attraction, and that costs $$$$$$$$$ regardless of neglect; especially the eerie result of abandoning Diesel propulsion. It is hard, however, to take seriously >>>some<<< of those who make the budget a negative issue because >>>some<<< of them also were part of the group who whole-heartedly justified the penny pinching methodology that included leaving the subs shuttered for 10 years.
135	gurgitoy2 Fri 6/8/2007 1:13p	"This is a perfect example. Now I applaud the lengths they have gone to modernize the attraction, and that costs $$$$$$$$$ regardless of neglect; especially the eerie result of abandoning Diesel propulsion." What do you mean "eerie result"? Can you explain that, because I guess I don't get it. I applaud them too for doing this one right. It's always more expensive to refurbish or rennovate an older or existing structure. Houses too. In my area, there are a lot of old Victorian homes that are being torn down and replaced with new buildings because it is MUCH cheaper to do that than restore the old house. The thing is, you lose a lot of the old character when you do that...and sometimes this new construction is not even as sturdy as the original old structure, but...yeah. Disneyland has a lot of decisions to make on whether or not to do more things like the Subs or just knock down old things and build new ones in their places.
136	ChiMike Fri 6/8/2007 1:32p	>>What do you mean "eerie result"? Can you explain that, because I guess I don't get it.<< While the subs are still not silent, the lack of a Diesel engine, coupled with the lack of smell, was very noticable to me. It certainly influences their vibe as they glide through the water.
137	gurgitoy2 Fri 6/8/2007 1:43p	"While the subs are still not silent, the lack of a Diesel engine, coupled with the lack of smell, was very noticable to me. It certainly influences their vibe as they glide through the water." Ah, ok, makes sense now. I have a Toyota Prius, and the reaction is probably similar. It makes no sound when it's backing out of or coming into the driveway because it's working off of the battery. That really confuses people, because they aren't sure if the car is even on or not. So, the Subs glide a bit more silently (and less smelly) through the lagoon. That's great! Considering they were originally supposed to reflect the nuclear powered Nautilus...and they were running on diesel!
138	RoadTrip Fri 6/8/2007 11:21p	<<"While the subs are still not silent, the lack of a Diesel engine, coupled with the lack of smell, was very noticable to me. It certainly influences their vibe as they glide through the water.">> I think that would be a definite improvement.
139	RoadTrip Fri 6/8/2007 11:30p	I probably haven't irritated anyone for a couple of days now, so it is probably time. I don't think the wand is that big of a deal. I wouldn't be hugely disappointed if it was removed, but I am fine with it staying too. I think Spaceship Earth is a very cool theme park building, but I don't know that it has the architectural significance of say a Frank Gehry museum. I mean let's face it. A golf ball isn't terribly unique. So I don't think the original design is so "special" that it is substantially harmed by the presence of the wand. Plus, I have a reason that I really like the wand, and I'll fess up to it. It makes Spaceship Earth far more visible from the Boardwalk Hotel. And I love checking into my room, opening the curtain and seeing that very visual reminder of just how close I am to my favorite theme park in the world. It is a special moment I would hate to lose.
140	Spirit of 74 Fri 6/8/2007 11:51p	<<You can't really be surprised. When you are dealing with a nearly fifty year old infrastructure base it is always going to be difficult. It is worth it. The frightening thing is the impact that this refreshment has on all of the other old structures in the park.>> The only thing important to me is the 'It is worth it' part ... because if that is the case, I can at least excuse the excessive overruns and such. I never thought bringing back the old subs was the best idea for the lagoon, but I sure as heck didn't want to see it filled in for a McDonald's playground either. Looking forward to riding it ... <<But I'm sure there's some Steve Davison project we can gush over in unison!>> <<Well he has: Mickey's Waterworks parade (very cool - great theme by Matthew Gerrard) Treasures on Parade at TDL (just huge) Wonderful World of Color Rivers of Light Thats what happens when you are VP of Spectacles. You've got to manage all eleven parks.>> I think his track record is just amazing when you look at it. I don't see anyone at any creative level of Disney in the past decade have that total level of home runs. The great thing is I'll actually get to experience his Asian projects too! <<And maybe you can shed some light on what Joe Rohde's up to these days if HKDL expansion is on hold.>> <<Not sure what you have been told but Joe wasn't really on the POTC expansion for HKDL. He had been working up Shanghai Disneyland at that time.>> I had heard Asian expansion and assumed it was HKDL as the whole locale seemed to be up his alley. So, if he was working on the failed Shanghai project, that's my bad. <<POTC was driven by Tom Morris and Tim Delaney in support.>> That much I knew. Just thought Joe had a role too. <<Huge shame but there will be other HKDL projects soon.>> I hope so, Lee. I really do. There are really only two viewpoints on this park: it's beautiful and detailed ... and it has no attractions. To me, that's the easiest thing to fix. Certainly easier than say, fixing DCA or doing anything with the mess across from DLP! You pick quality attractions and add them. <<Joe isn't a corporate climber and just has a huge passion for his product. He is working up some DAK ideas as usual. Just trying to work out what should be next especially if the Disney's Nighttime Kingdom concept takes off.>> I'm very glad to hear Joe's working on DAK concepts. I thought when he went Asia, that he was kind of putting DAK to the side. To see that great park getting better all the time and know Joe is still tinkering, plotting and planning is very good news! <<On the wand front Tom Fitzgerald had been the driving force to get the thing down but Jay wanted the cost of removal to be built into the SSE refurbishment. Tom wasn't prepared to sacrifice any of the budget that Sue Bryan and Bob Zalk had been allocated so he pushed for it to be extraneous.>> Well, than kudos to Tom. And to anyone who helped get that monstrosity down. I had heard as far back as 1999 or 2000 that the thing was budgeted to be up for a decade. I had no problem with it as a gimmick for the Millemmium, but it did become a tacky, terrible, cartoony add-on. And Jay should have had the sense to get the thing down years ago ... not try and take funds from the attraction rehab ... but, boy, that's so like him. <<Epcot is very close to Tom's heart and that is why he has been able to get a lot of fixes into that park: China, Mexico, Canada etc. >> Maybe he can now get to work on getting some significant addition(s) to World Showcase?

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