Tokyo Disneyland
Topic: Tokyo DisneySea- Is Soarin' still coming?

#	Author	Message
81	Mr X Mon 8/20/2007 4:34p	**likes of Joe Rohde or Kathy Rogers. I happen to think it inally) namely Rick Rothchild and Kevin Rafferty. I als** Wow, you try to refute the argument and drop 4 names in the process! Are you trying to tell us how "special" you are or something? **I also know most of the team behind TDS (even though most are no longer with the Company)** Yet another passive agressive shot at the park, and the people that built the place! Dude, you've got one hell of a vendetta going on here (even if you and your partner don't want to admit it). I can only assume most aren't with the company anymore because they didn't "build on a budget" and the company wants that, and nothing but that, going forward. But what do I know? I don't have any names to drop whatsoever (nor do I really care).
82	Mr X Mon 8/20/2007 4:39p	**I'll listen to the, "it's too short" or "what's up with that painted flat of the correct route" arguments but a partially submerged creature? Sorry, but taking issue with that is beyond flimsy.** As was already pointed out, this guy will find anything and everything negative about the park and gleefully write all about it, that's how much he (and his partner) really hate the place. To each his own, I suppose.
83	barboy Mon 8/20/2007 4:59p	Who's his partner? ---- a regular LPer?
84	TDR_Fan Mon 8/20/2007 6:08p	<<Who's his partner? ---- a regular LPer?>> Lindsay Cave.
85	barboy Mon 8/20/2007 7:32p	Oh, I see. Thanks! (who is Lindsay Cave?--- I don't recognize the name)
86	davewasbaloo Tue 8/21/2007 2:08a	C'mon guys, every one is entitled to their own opinion. I know you all take pot shots at me for liking DCA and WDS!!! I cannot comment on TDS having not yet expereienced it. But based on my wide reading, my initial impressions is it is like a Super Model, lot's to look at, but the substance level can vary dependent on tastes. If you want a high number count of attraction, or character laden attractions, go elsewhere. If you want to kick back and drink in the details, enjoy live entertainment, and pretend to be somewhere else, TDS is a great park. Personally, I can happy spend 8 days of an 11 day WDW visit at Epcot and DAK, or equal time between DCA and DL, so I am very much looking forward to making up my own mind. But also knowing Lee and Lindsay, I credit their opinion as well (though we do not always see eye to eye) I very much respect their very informed opinions. There is no perfect Disney park yet, but I am looking forward to the Japanese take on things.
87	SuperDry Tue 8/21/2007 8:27p	<<< I'm not going to address the bias comment specifically but on a general basis. >>> I'll take an educated guess that you were responding to my post #69. <<< I absolutely refute that notion. I am not here to peddle anyone else's opinion or the Company's line. >>> I think you may have mis-understood the point I was trying to make. If so, it was most likely because I didn't explain myself very well, and for that, I'm sorry. I don't think that when you post on LP that you're trying to promote the company line, do anyone else's bidding, or for that matter do much of anything other than state your own personal opinion, just like anyone else. So, I don't think you have any more of a bias than anyone else that has a personal opinion. Here's perhaps something more to the point of what I was trying to say: I think that sometimes you're too close to the situation to see some of the broad patterns. There may be a term for what I'm trying to describe, but I don't know what it is. It's in the neighborhood of "corporate culture" or "institutional thinking" but perhaps closer to being a more localized, particular notion. Whatever the term for what I'm trying to describe is, these things can take on a life of their own sometimes. I've seen this happen many times in the business world, both from an "inside the notion" perspective where I later realize what was really going on and from an "outside the notion" perspective where it's painfully obvious to everyone except those caught up inside whatever the situation is. I know that this is a whole field of study in psychology, and that it's increasingly being applied in business settings, including that MBA programs often have some amount of coursework on this subject (gee, perhaps if I read some of the study materials I'd know what the proper terms are :-)). More to the point, the amount of damage that can be done in organizations by the wrong notion is enormous, and in many cases, the people involved don't even realize what's going on. I could probably go on at length on this subject, but in a lot of ways it's quite a bit more abstract than "I like/dislike XYZ Disney attraction because ..." so I don't know that this is the right venue. <<< The reason I happen to think Everest is a tour de force has nothing to do with the fact that I have any sort of relationship (whether perceived or actual) with the likes of Joe Rohde or Kathy Rogers. I happen to think it is a great attraction. >>> You'll get no argument from me. I think EE is one of the best things to come out of WDI in recent years. And I think that on multiple levels: just as a care-free guest, it's a great attraction. And, as a Disney fan that wants to see more of this type of thing in the parks, I'm happy that this was accomplished for what I understand is a relatively modest amount for a big-iron immersive E-ticket attraction.
88	Mr X Tue 8/21/2007 8:50p	Interesting stuff, SD, and I'm looking forward to Lee's reply. To give a vivid example of how this sort of thing "can" cause massive damage ("can" in quotes because I'm not saying this applies to Lee, or necessarily Disney), one need only look at the homebuilding and lending industry in America today. This is ENRON on a multi-industry scale. And it was obvious to all of us on the outside looking in months and months ago but those on the inside just could not see this simple, simple fact. It's not a good idea to sell million dollar mansions to paupers and speculators with little money and no collateral. That's the extremely simplified version, but when you boil it down, that's what happened. And now we see entire industries in shambles (they're finally actually ADMITTING it these past few weeks), because they couldn't understand the stupidity and hubris of these actions. Totally skewed groupthink gone awry. (and it's sort of similar to my point about Disney insisting on pointing out 101 reasons why the cheap parks ain't doing so well, when reason number 102 is staring them in the face (customers don't really want to flock to cheap looking Disney products)...and it's not even lies because I believe that they really BELIEVE what they're saying, just as the mortgage companies and builders did!) I didn't want to write a 10 page essay here (I easily could), so please pardon the extremely simplified and watered-down version.
89	leemac Wed 8/22/2007 2:40a	<<I think that sometimes you're too close to the situation to see some of the broad patterns. >> Gotcha and I didn't pick that up from your previous comments. :-) That is likely to be true. When I see a final product I'm often thinking about how it got there and who was responsible.
90	Mr X Wed 8/22/2007 4:26a	>>That is likely to be true. When I see a final product I'm often thinking about how it got there and who was responsible.<< That's a very cool reply, and much appreciated. I'm sure most react this way when they're involved in the projects or the people to some extent...I know that my take on entertainment where I am directly involved or know the people involved can hardly be called "unbiased", even though I try to be. So, since I've already talked to DavewasBaloo about this...as a U.K. guy what do you think of the housing thing in America? :p

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