DCA, Future Expansion
Topic: Tom Staggs basically confirms the massive upgrade

#	Author	Message
111	Dabob2 Tue 9/25/2007 1:32p	<The deterioration at Disneyland was the result of cutbacks to maintenence budgets. There was no effort made to eliminate food, retail or entertainment venues.> You sure about that? Wasn't this the same time frame people were complaining about the Tiki Room not opening till noon, the keelboats closing, the canoes closing (though later coming back), the submarines of course closing, etc. etc.?
112	dshyates Tue 9/25/2007 1:32p	OK Maliboomer is scant on themeing similar to a drop ride at a regional theme park. When Disney does drop rides they look like old hotel towers that have been struck by lightining. Both are drop rides. One we expext to find in a Disney park. The other more like a regional non-Disney park.
113	Dabob2 Tue 9/25/2007 1:34p	>>Was 7 million the high water mark? Or was it the low water mark? Which was it?<< <I don't know simpler words to use to explain this (yet again). The 7 million figure was used to reverse engineer the design of DCA. There's no guess work involved.> Actually, if that's true, that would speak to 7 million being the high-water mark they expected. After all, you design a park to be able to function at its most crowded, just in case the crowds do come. So if was reverse-engineered to accommodate up to 7 million, that means 7 million would be the high-water mark they expected. They didn't reach it, but suddenly the failure to do so doesn't seem quite as bad.
114	plpeters70 Tue 9/25/2007 1:35p	"But that did not happen. The place IS very much themed." When talking about the rides at Paradise Pier, saying that each is individually themed seems to really be stretching the idea of what a themed ride actually is. I can see saying that there is a theme to Paradise Pier AS A WHOLE, and the rides help estahblish that theme, but to say that each ride is themed seems to be stretching things a little too far. Those rides are no more themed than similar rides I've seen at Six Flags - and I wouldn't call any of those rides themed - at least not to Disney standards. "Compare the theming of Maliboomer (uck...i hate puns) to say, the teacup ride. Similar style of ride, and about the same level of theming." I always find this to be somewhat of a silly comparison - the teacups were built in the 1950s, along with the similar star jets, or whatever they are currently called. I can't think of any ride that was added after the first few years of operation that was anywhere near as simply themed as the teacups. Instead, for almost 50 years, Disney continued to expand on what a themed attraction could be and didn't settle for rides as simply "themed" as anything found in DCA. Disney audiences of the 2000s expect a lot more from a Disney attraction than simple kinetics and bare-bones theming.
115	plpeters70 Tue 9/25/2007 1:43p	^^ Which doesn't mean that I don't enjoy the rides at Paradise Pier - some of them can actually be fun. But, they're really not what I'm looking for from a Disney theme park. I'd much rather see Disney use their precious space for something more ambitious.
116	Spirit of 74 Tue 9/25/2007 1:44p	<<If people are going to throw around numbers than the theories behind them must be consistent. We all know DCA did not pull in the numbers that everyone hoped but DO NOT throw out numbers and justify them for one resort and not the other.>> So true. <<If i could get into detail concerning numbers i would but most would be surprised how easy it is to inflate them when necessary. Even numbers produced for internal use are inflated and occasionally leaked out. (its always good publicity to be considered the number one destination in the world) >> yes. Which is why most Disney insiders will tell you WDW's numbers haven't been close to accurate in years ... the MK doesn't pull in close to TDL numbers, but you'll never hear that from TWDC.
117	jonvn Tue 9/25/2007 1:46p	"OK Maliboomer is scant on themeing similar to a drop ride at a regional theme park." I'm afraid I'm going to have to keep pushing. It's actually themed to the surrounding area, as a type of thing that is found on seaside piers. The theming, if any, of regular amusement parks is basically non-existant. The ride will have a name, and a color of paint, but that's about it. "saying that each is individually themed seems to really be stretching the idea of what a themed ride actually is." There are different types of rides. They each require a different level of theming to match the area that they are placed in. Not every ride is a dark ride style of attraction. In the case of these sorts of rides, the ones at the pier as as themed to the area. "the teacups were built in the 1950s," The Teacups as they are now were built in the 1980s. There is nothing wrong with this sort of ride. People enjoy them. I don't. But other people do. By adding these sorts of rides, they really were covering a problem that actually did exist at the place, that being the lack of these sorts of things. But since you said it stretches what a themed ride is, tell me what IS a themed ride? To me, a themed ride is one that meshes with its surroundings and has content that is associated with its surroundings. That makes it themed.
118	jonvn Tue 9/25/2007 1:49p	"WDW's numbers haven't been close to accurate in years " I've also heard that DLR numbers are also way low. Basically, you can't go by AB guesses as to what's going on, and hold them up to legalistic challenge because they're pretty much wild guesswork. So to claim numbers this and meeting goals that, when A) You don't know what they are actually achieving, and B) You don't know what the goals are anyway, is ludicrous.
119	bean Tue 9/25/2007 2:05p	"Actually, AB/ERA counted the preview attendance in January of 2001 for DCA, so it was basically a full year." and how would they know those numbers if Disney does not release them. Again they are all hypothetical numbers put together by private firms. Most of which by the way do not even release numbers anymore.
120	plpeters70 Tue 9/25/2007 2:07p	"By adding these sorts of rides, they really were covering a problem that actually did exist at the place, that being the lack of these sorts of things." But why was that ever a problem? They were able to operate at Disneyland for almost 50 years with only two of these types of rides - and those were leftovers from the 1950s. (And yes, the teacups were moved and re-designed in the 1980s, but it's not like they added another spinner to that area as well.) Disney made a name for themselves by doing things better than the competition - they didn't need those types of rides to draw people in. So, why in the year 2001 did they suddenly decide that these types of rides would be a draw? I just don't understand the logic behind this decision? "To me, a themed ride is one that meshes with its surroundings and has content that is associated with its surroundings. That makes it themed." You are correct - I mispoke. What I was trying to convey was that the level of theming on these attractions was really not that much better than what I have seen at other amusement parks. I just got back from Six Flags here in DC, and almost all of their rides had a "theme" attached to them, but I would never call this place a theme park! They had lands with themes - and even rides that attempted to capture that theme, but they really all just failed miserably. I realize that this is somewhat subjective, but to me, the level of theming on the Paradise Pier rides really isn't that much better than the theming I saw this weekend at Six Flags. Yes, they work well as a cohesive whole, but as individual attractions, not so much.

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