DCA, Future Expansion
Topic: Tom Staggs basically confirms the massive upgrade

#	Author	Message
51	bean Thu 9/20/2007 9:20p	since some of you dismissed the poster that clearly stated the correct information given by Stagg i thought i would post the webcast link of the interview. If you do nto want to listen to the whole webcast the area of theme park expansion is discussed at around the 10:00 minute mark. Then some of you will notice that the remarks in the story posted in the first link is nothing more than an editorial comment by the writer. A comment that keeps showing up in several articles for the last several years without actuall proof from the Disney company http://phx.corporate-ir.net/ph oenix.zhtml?c=129198&p=irol-eventDetails&EventId=1637763&WebCastId=684065&StreamId=974605
52	Hans Reinhardt Thu 9/20/2007 10:28p	Thank you, bean. Even still, someone will spin it differently.
53	jonvn Thu 9/20/2007 10:31p	And then claim their spin is what disney proclaimed for years. It's sad. Sad for people who can't even understand what facts are in general, let alone what they are regarding this stuff.
54	disneywatcher Sun 9/23/2007 11:36p	>> A comment that keeps showing up in several articles for the last several years without actuall proof from the Disney company << So what exactly are the specific financial statistics related to DCA? Is it doing great, good, okay, poorly, or horribly? I know that a long time ago the DisCo was open enough that it released to the public, via the media, attendance figures for all its parks. Compared with today, that seems unusually candid and casual.
55	Sport Goofy Mon 9/24/2007 6:37a	<< I know that a long time ago the DisCo was open enough that it released to the public, via the media, attendance figures for all its parks. >> How long ago was that? It hasn't occurred in my lifetime.
56	Hans Reinhardt Mon 9/24/2007 7:52a	There was a time when Disney released the figures. I believe the company stopped in the late eighties or early nineties.
57	jonvn Mon 9/24/2007 10:22a	That's right. Shortly after Eisner took over. Before that, you could actually call them up on the phone and they would flat out tell you. I mean, you could be anyone, and they just didn't care.
58	DlandDug Mon 9/24/2007 12:06p	I tend to avoid discussions about whether DCA is "bad," as that is strictly a matter of taste and opinion. That DCA is a failure, on the other hand, is hardly a matter of opinion. The problem is, too many people confuse the two, assuming that anyone who says that DCA is a failure is simply stating a biased opinion. All opinions should be supported by some sort of facts. Of course, when it is entirely subjective ("DCA sucks!"), there's little anyone can do but try and shout louder. That DCA is a failure is a simple matter of looking at what the stated expectations were, as compared to the results. No one has to guess what was expected. It was clearly stated, implied, and acted on in the months and years leading up to its opening. The results are readily available on a daily basis. There is, of course, the Barry Braverman's "7 million guests a year" prediction, as stated in the LA Times on January 14, 2001. The Times no longer links to the article in question (you can pay for it, though), but it is quoted in a Wikipedia entry: >>The Los Angeles Times in a January 14, 2001 article projected attendance for DCA to reach 7 million, however in 2002 it reported only 4.7 million.<< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D isney's_California_Adventure The same number crops up here, in Nation's Restaurant News: >>According to Disney Parks & Resorts president Paul Pressler, "The new Disneyland Resort will redefine the Southern California vacation experience." Park officials predict that 7 million visitors will kick the tires on the new additions in the first year.<< http://findarticles.com/p/arti cles/mi_m3190/is_4_35/ai_69859726 Here's Barry Braverman, talking to the LA Business Journal just before DCA opened: >>Q: What will it take to make this theme park successful? A: What will make it a success is the guests' response to it. If the guests come in significant numbers, enjoy themselves, say good things about it, and tell their friends to come, it will be a success. It's all about, do people love this place? Do they want to come again and again? That we will see over time.<< http://findarticles.com/p/arti cles/mi_m5072/is_4_23/ai_69713326/pg_2 Did this happen? Did guests come in significant numbers? Did they say good things about it and tell their friends to come? No. (And that's not an opinion. It's statistically supported fact.) Did they ENJOY themselves? Well, some do. But not enough to keep DCA from being a failure. But don't believe me (or any of the Usual Suspects in the blogosphere). Here's the Los Angeles Business Journal on the subject: >>Walt Disney Co. has taken the unprecedented step of offering free admission at its new California Adventure theme park all summer long for children who are accompanied by an adult.<< http://findarticles.com/p/arti cles/mi_m5072/is_27_23/ai_76521380 I know, I know. 9/11 was bad news for EVERYONE in the tourist industry. Except this article is dated July 2 of 2001. Disney was discounting DCA just before the biggest holiday of the Summer. Or, to further quote the Journal: >>Since, the $1.4-billion park opened next to Disneyland in February, attendance has been well below projections.<< From an article discussing the effects of a possible recession on the LA economy in the latter half of 2001: >>The region's tourism industry, which Kyser predicts will grow only 0.4 percent for overnight visitors, has fallen victim to suffering in the three Ds: Disney, dot-com and dim bulbs. Disney's California Adventure, which opened to lukewarm response earlier this year, was in part responsible for dampening tourism visitors through the region, Kyser said...<< http://findarticles.com/p/arti cles/mi_m5072/is_31_23/ai_77338313 What is most interesting in this article is that the recession, which has been used by others to somehow support the notion that DCA was simply a victim of a poorly performing economy, is mentioned as a possibility for the latter part of the year. DCA, on the other hand, is cited as a primary factor in the downturn in tourism. (And I must add, parenthetically, that this is all well before 9/11.) Three years later in the Journal: >>Disney doesn't disclose attendance, but industry estimates put Disneyland at 12.7 million visitors in 2003, about the same as 2002. Struggling California Adventure drew only 5.3 million visitors, though that was up 13 percent from 2002... At California Adventure, Twilight Zone Tower of Terror is set to debut in May and expected to give another boost to a park that has yet to meet expectations... But even with a 10 percent increase, the park still would fall short of the originally projected 7 million visitors each year.<< http://findarticles.com/p/arti cles/mi_m5072/is_9_26/ai_n6000889 Ah yes. Seven million visitors a year. Not a guess, not an opinion. Just a simple reiteration of clearly documented statements.
59	DlandDug Mon 9/24/2007 12:09p	P.S. I eagerly await some sort of documentation that shows how Walt gave out interviews in which he discussed expanding Disneyland into the parking lot. I really am interested in reading about this, as I have never run across this assertion before.
60	jonvn Mon 9/24/2007 12:21p	"That DCA is a failure, on the other hand, is hardly a matter of opinion." No, it's a false statement. Do you even know what a business failure is? And yes, Barry Braverman mentioned a 7 million figure, and that's all anyone has actually ever heard of the place regarding what Disney declared as their goals. Although what that number actually meant internally, and how it was arrived at is unknown, so we really can't use it for a whole lot of real solid facts. Other than to say that they probably didn't meet that. Assuming attendance rumors to be true. But we don't know by how much. "The Los Angeles Times in a January 14, 2001 article projected attendance for DCA to reach 7 million, however in 2002 it reported only 4.7 million" For example, this. Since Disney did not release these figures, how were they arrived at? Aside from that, park attendance dwindled to almost nothing for a good two months that year. The problem is that people want to view this 7 million figure in a total and complete vaccuum. That really isn't a very realistic viewpoint. You have to take all sorts of things into consideration. "Did this happen? Did guests come in significant numbers? Did they say good things about it and tell their friends to come? No. (And that's not an opinion. It's statistically supported fact.)" So, it's a statistcally supporte fact that they did not say good things about the place? I am going to try to be nice here, because I know you made a really strong effort. But you can't support these statements like this. It makes no sense. "Did they ENJOY themselves? Well, some do. But not enough to keep DCA from being a failure." Again, based on what? You say these things and they are just pronouncements. "I know. 9/11 was bad news for EVERYONE in the tourist industry. Except this article is dated July 2 of 2001. Disney was discounting DCA just before the biggest holiday of the Summer. " Tourism all across the board was done that summer already. Disneyland itself had a major downtown in visits that year. Again, you have to look at things from a bit higher up. "DCA, on the other hand, is cited as a primary factor in the downturn in tourism." This is pretty ridiculous. To suggest that this theme park damaged tourism across the entire country? That people stopped visiting southern california because of DCA? Please. That is beyond nonsensical. It's not that Disney is cited as the source of the downturn, it's that Disney HAD a downturn, and caused those figures to be lower. Don't you see the cause and effect going on here? Honestly... "industry estimates put Disneyland at 12.7 million visitors in 2003" Those are AB numbers which have been called inaccurate by everyone who looks at them and knows the real figures. AB took wild guesses at what attendance was. It's all some sources have to go by, though. "Just a simple reiteration of clearly documented statements." The only real fact you have in this entire thing is the 7 million figure. The rest is speculation and commentary. You need to learn the difference. And you might note that in that last article, DCA attendance was up 13% up over the previous year. Supposedly, attendance has grown every year for the place since it opened. But I guess that doesn't quite fit in with the failure model you are trying to propose.

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