Disneyland General
Topic: Peoplemover track: still NO word/sign of progress?

#	Author	Message
141	2001DLFan Sun 12/2/2007 10:30a	<<jonvn: Yeah, the main problem with the 98 makeover is not the color of the paint, or them placing the Rocket Jets in the entry way. The main problem is that hacked out its soul and threw it away. There was nothing put in that had as its idea what the area has always been about. People think it was bad because they didn't like the color. It goes a little deeper than that.>> The '98 version of Tomorrowland was developed much in response to the poor maintenance the park was getting under it's management at that time (Pressler), and the budget they were given (the whole land to be redeveloped with a single attraction's budget). The land (especially Space Mountain) used to get repainted every other year. But the deferred maintenance at that time had neglected it to the point where the land was constantly looking shabby and dirty. The paint scheme was chosen to make the neglect less noticeable. As for the Rocket Jets, they decided to use the design they developed for Disneyland Paris. But that attraction couldn't be placed on the existing platform that the original ride was on. To rebuild that structure would have eaten up a major portion of the whole land's budget. Like it or not, the only location that ride could occupy is where it is now located. Those who are opposed to where it is have to realize the only other option is it's total removal
142	Dabob2 Sun 12/2/2007 10:36a	<with the indoor sections showing the original EPCOT model> DL's originally had a view of "Progress City," which I loooooved. (much more than the "superspeed tunnel." <Those who are opposed to where it is have to realize the only other option is it's total removal.> Perhaps that was the only option in 1998, budget-wise. But now with a different team in place, ESPECIALLY if something is indeed done with the PM track... that provides the perfect opportunity to rebuild or shore up that platform and put the jets back where they should be.
143	2001DLFan Sun 12/2/2007 11:28a	<<Dabob2: <with the indoor sections showing the original EPCOT model> DL's originally had a view of "Progress City," which I loooooved. (much more than the "superspeed tunnel." Totally agree with you on that. << <Those who are opposed to where it is have to realize the only other option is it's total removal.> Perhaps that was the only option in 1998, budget-wise. But now with a different team in place, ESPECIALLY if something is indeed done with the PM track... that provides the perfect opportunity to rebuild or shore up that platform and put the jets back where they should be.>> While there may be a new team involved now, that doesn't mean that Disneyland will be willing to fork over the budget to TOTALLY redo the platform. If they actually decide to do something with the people mover, they will have to come up with a new access to that platform. And if they want to get to the Rocket Jets level platform, they will either have to reinstall an elevator (probably totally unacceptable to operations) or develop some sort of second level to the land that will be able to access it. Another issue with the current Astro Orbitor is that the planetary structure will be of little benefit if the whole attraction is 30 ft higher. Few people on the ground will be able to appreciate the kinetics.
144	Dabob2 Sun 12/2/2007 12:47p	<< <Those who are opposed to where it is have to realize the only other option is it's total removal.> <<Perhaps that was the only option in 1998, budget-wise. But now with a different team in place, ESPECIALLY if something is indeed done with the PM track... that provides the perfect opportunity to rebuild or shore up that platform and put the jets back where they should be.>> <While there may be a new team involved now, that doesn't mean that Disneyland will be willing to fork over the budget to TOTALLY redo the platform.> Perhaps they won't be, but that doesn't mean they couldn't; thus the "only other option" is not necessarily removal. I doubt they'll do it; but on these boards, we often talk about what we'd like to see; many of us would like to see the AO moved back high where it belongs, and if they wanted to spend the bucks they could. Doesn't mean it's likely. <If they actually decide to do something with the people mover, they will have to come up with a new access to that platform. And if they want to get to the Rocket Jets level platform, they will either have to reinstall an elevator (probably totally unacceptable to operations) or develop some sort of second level to the land that will be able to access it.> Why would an elevator be unacceptable? It worked for 30 years. <Another issue with the current Astro Orbitor is that the planetary structure will be of little benefit if the whole attraction is 30 ft higher. Few people on the ground will be able to appreciate the kinetics. > It would still be visible, obviously, if not as well for people on the ground. But that seems a small tradeoff for a). removing that bottleneck; b). making the AO a better experience to ride, both due to the height and the fact that your view would be all TL, rather than half castle and Main Street, and c). remove the visual intrusion from the Main Street side. I figure they won't do it. It would be costly, and probably wouldn't bring a single extra body through the gates. But I'd still LIKE to see it. And if they're ever going to do it, it would be when and if they re-work the PM.
145	jonvn Sun 12/2/2007 1:02p	"and the budget they were given " No. As I said, it was not the budget, it was the ideas they were trying to implement. They put in a coke machine that looked like the Moonliner. God knows how much that must have cost, and for what? So people can look at something from 1955? Or the mural, now covered over, where the Rocket Rods were. What was the price of that thing? Oh, how about making the carousel theater rotate for no good reason? Oh, and digging a tunnel for the Rocket Rods entrance? What was wrong with the entrance that was already there? And was it budgetary constraints that set up the insane spiral design of the line? Yeah, all some WDI fanboy's dream, that served no purpose. I can understand budgetary considerations for placing the Astro Orbitor where it was, instead of where it really belong, if it turned out the entire platform did have to be rebuilt as is rumored, but there certainly were better ways of them spending the money they did. If they really were under the budget gun, then you don't dig a tunnel to the rocket rods, you use the already existing and working speedramps. You don't trash the circle vision theater, you just leave what was in there alone. You don't put up bad murals, and stupid coke machines. You don't make a building rotate when there is no purpose for it. The money saved on these things alone could have gone to paying for more effects on the Rocket Rods (which were never even appropriate given the track they had to ride on) and maybe even paying for the Astro Orbitor to be put back up on top where it belonged. "The land (especially Space Mountain) used to get repainted every other year. But the deferred maintenance at that time had neglected it to the point where the land was constantly looking shabby and dirty. The paint scheme was chosen to make the neglect less noticeable" I find this extremely difficult to believe, because paint still needs to be maintained, no matter what the color of it is. I have heard this story before, and want to know the original source. "Like it or not, the only location that ride could occupy is where it is now located." Then you know what? Leave the stupid thing alone and right where it was. That would have saved even more money. It had just undergone a rebuild and was fine just as it was.
146	jonvn Sun 12/2/2007 1:07p	I'm just a little tired of hearing the old story of "We didn't have enough money!" when it was not so much the money, but how they went about spending what they did have. Bad choices, bad design. That is not the fault of not enough cash.
147	land fan Sun 12/2/2007 4:22p	Yes,they should have left it right where it was.They could have just thrown a coat of that ugly bronze paint over it and called it a day.(Even though I naver would have done that)I was never crazy about that retro future look.It may play well in Discoveryland but this is Tomorrowland!They could have saved alot of money and complaints.
148	bean Sun 12/2/2007 8:56p	"As for the Rocket Jets, they decided to use the design they developed for Disneyland Paris. But that attraction couldn't be placed on the existing platform that the original ride was on. To rebuild that structure would have eaten up a major portion of the whole land's budget. Like it or not, the only location that ride could occupy is where it is now located. Those who are opposed to where it is have to realize the only other option is it's total removal " i am not familiar with the attraction or its footprint but doesn't that attraction (astro orbitor) actually use pretty much the same footprint as the old comsic waters area. There is also plenty of room around it for walkway and the queue could easily be placed between the attraction and the HISTA building. a redesign of the area could easily eliminate the original HISTA queue in front of the building and just relocate that attractions entrance next to the space mountain sign. HISTA does not use the front portion of the queue anymore.
149	bean Sun 12/2/2007 9:08p	"If they really were under the budget gun, then you don't dig a tunnel to the rocket rods, you use the already existing and working speedramps. You don't trash the circle vision theater, you just leave what was in there alone. You don't put up bad murals, and stupid coke machines. You don't make a building rotate when there is no purpose for it." what in the world are you talking about. no one built a tunnel, the tunnel was there. If the original entrance ramp had been left for the rocket rods the line alone would had completely blocked the whole entrance of the land. By removing the ramp, the area was opened up for better traffic flow. The tunnel was already there and a few walls removed to connect the tunnel and area accesible to guests. As for the circle vision theater what exactly do you think was done? A few props were added, a few chain links were added and some cosmetic work was done to create it into a large queue. As for the murals, you don't actually think that adding a mural actually took a large chunk of the budget? A coke machine? its just a cosmetic prop with a few nozzles that spray mist. And sorry to tell you but the innoventions building always rotated, it was not dificult to just make it turn again and add some movement to that corner of the park.
150	patrickegan Sun 12/2/2007 9:14p	But what's it's carbon footprint? The should tear it all out and make it green. Green and hot with an Al Gore AA, now that's a future!

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