Disneyland General
Topic: Peoplemover track: still NO word/sign of progress?

#	Author	Message
151	jonvn Sun 12/2/2007 10:48p	"no one built a tunnel, the tunnel was there. " There had to be created access and design for the tunnel and all that. They had the area dug up for a long while fixing this up. "By removing the ramp, the area was opened up for better traffic flow." You mean like how they ruined traffic flow with the Astro Orbitor? Please, stop with the excuses. "As for the circle vision theater what exactly do you think was done? " Money was spent, that is what was done. It was not needed. None of it. The ride could have simply used the existing facilities for it's queue. Then at least CircleVision would have continued to operate, and you wouldn't have ended up with basically a dead area when Rocket Rods (another brainy design move) died. "As for the murals, you don't actually think that adding a mural actually took a large chunk of the budget?" It took more than zero. Wasted. "A coke machine? its just a cosmetic prop with a few nozzles that spray mist." More wasted money. Oh, and so was the "agrifuture" stuff. It adds up. "And sorry to tell you but the innoventions building always rotated, it was not dificult to just make it turn again and add some movement to that corner of the park." Really? It rotated? I'm amazed. I never knew. I guess all those years I spent in that building see shows while it rotated must have just slipped my mind. In any case, if I recall, it was actually an effort to get it working again, after having it sit there for a decade or so. How much was spent on that little thing? And for what? To get movement in the area which was needed because of the improper and pointless removal of the Rocket Jets? Give me a break. It was nothing but a series of bad design choices from top to bottom. People had their pet ideas, and were so enamored of them they simply would not let go of them to face the reality of a tight budget. Now, the budget may very well have been too tight. But the way this was handled, by whoever handled it was crazy. If you can't afford to do something right, and the thing that is there is already OK, then you leave it alone. This is not a really hard concept. If it works, and you've got nothing better, don't touch it. They should have left CircleVision there to run as it was, left the Rocket Jets up, left the Mary Blair mural up, left the Carousel building to not rotate, and used that money for something worthwhile in Innoventions and giving something to look at while on the Rocket Rods. Paint the place, add the fountain to the entrance area. There. You have a nice remodel. Oh well. Now it is going to have to be all redone anyway.
152	FerretAfros Sun 12/2/2007 11:38p	"Few people on the ground will be able to appreciate the kinetics." That's okay. The planets really don't spin anymore. The whole thing moves at the same speed when the ride is running (interestingly, they move at different speeds), and then it slows to a stop after the ride stops to unload. At one point, each planet moved around the tower the entire time. Then the ride started and they all lifted up some, but continued their normal spinning. This way, there was this kinetic energy there even when the ride was just loading and unloading (which it does a lot). It looked like the planets were going to crash into each other and was actually pretty fascinating to watch. Now, it's really nothing different than what Dumbo has, just taller and without the fountains.
153	bean Mon 12/3/2007 12:15p	"Give me a break. It was nothing but a series of bad design choices from top to bottom. People had their pet ideas, and were so enamored of them they simply would not let go of them to face the reality of a tight budget." "Paint the place, add the fountain to the entrance area. There. You have a nice remodel." Now, the budget may very well have been too tight. But the way this was handled, by whoever handled it was crazy. If you can't afford to do something right, and the thing that is there is already OK, then you leave it alone." and you must be all knowledgable seems like in every thread you know whats best and how things should be done. You always have an answer for everything eventhough you are clueless of what actually goes on behind the close doors of the mouse house. When you actually have facts and knowledge of what went on before, during and after the remodeling write back if not is best you do not write about what you do not know More wasted money. Oh, and so was the "agrifuture" stuff. " Stupid comments like this should not even get a respond but I am sure you were one of the first person that decided that parts of DCA were charmless because little was done to add detail. Do us a favor worry about how to do your job and do not tell others how to do theirs. "They should have left CircleVision there to run as it was, left the Rocket Jets up, left the Mary Blair mural up, left the Carousel building to not rotate, and used that money for something worthwhile in Innoventions and giving something to look at while on the Rocket Rods" should we also put a sign up in the front and say visit "The Disneyland museum? or should WDI just not take a chance on anything because its safer to just add a new coat of paint and leave it. at least it would make you happy.
154	bean Mon 12/3/2007 12:18p	I will come back online and give you guys somekind of update as soon as I get a chance. right now I am way to busy to listen to garbage from ignorant people
155	aracuanbird Mon 12/3/2007 12:22p	wow...catty.
156	jonvn Mon 12/3/2007 12:38p	"you must be all knowledgable" No, but neither am I fricking stupid, either. And while I may not always know what's best, there seems to be not a shred of common sense, and an incredible desire to defend absolutely everything Disney does, no matter how bad the decisions were. As if nothing they do could ever be improper. Well, in this case it was. Bad decisions made, and bad choices. "You always have an answer for everything " What I have is simply common sense. If you can't deal with someone being critical of the precious design choices made, that's your problem. I don't care who you are or who you know. When something is done badly, it's done badly. "When you actually have facts and knowledge of what went on before, during and after the remodeling write back if not is best you do not write about what you do not know" Yeah? Why don't you go ahead and supply some facts, then. All I know is that there was a remodel, bad choices were made, certainly artistically. "I am sure you were one of the first person that decided that parts of DCA were charmless because little was done to add detail." Actually, no, I wasn't. Speaking of someone talking in ignorance. You can ask around about what I have said about DCA, since you think you know me so well. "Do us a favor worry about how to do your job and do not tell others how to do theirs." Since you folks seem basically incapable of doing a credible job, maybe you should listen to someone trying to tell you what is needed. You don't seem to have clue one as to what these parks are about, and what is good or not, or how to budget. "should we also put a sign up in the front and say visit "The Disneyland museum?" Who said you should. Change has always been a part of the parks. If you actually understood anything about the history of the place, you'd know that. Instead, you just want to knee jerk react to any criticism. I must have really hit a nerve, given this ridiculous response. But I'll tell you what the place wasn't about. Doing something stupid and weak and using money as an excuse. No one wants a "museum," but neither do they want second rate, either. You can't make something better, then you leave it alone. This is not some special concept to Disney. This is how you do things in life in general. Leave it alone if you can't improve it. "or should WDI just not take a chance on anything because its safer to just add a new coat of paint and leave it." If WDI (or whoever is in Disney behind this stuff) is so blatantly incompetent that they can't even figure out what to cut and when, then maybe they should leave well enough alone until they can hire someone who has a lick of sense in their heads. "right now I am way to busy to listen to garbage from ignorant people" Doing what? Acting like you can do no wrong? Yeah, that's right. That's why TL 98 went over so well. Because you all know so much about what you are doing. So, what is going to be put in to replace the stuff that was screwed up? More cartoons, perhaps? Oh yes, real creativity there. Thanks for the little lesson in why Disney is producing such crap in their parks lately. If this is the attitude internally, then it's not such a surprise. Take a lesson from people who actually understand your product, because it is obviously apparent the people at Disney no longer do.
157	jonvn Mon 12/3/2007 12:56p	"wow...catty" What's really telling is instead of actually responding to what I said, bean decided to launch into attack mode. It would have been very easy to shoot me down with facts, or explanations. Instead we get "you're ignorant...blah blah blah." And it wouldn't have even been shooting me down, just saying what was some reasoning. Which of course, would have been bad reasoning. Someone at Disney, be it WDI, or the executive office suite, or the janitorial staff, made decisions that went into TL98, and have gone into and are continuing to go into DCA. I am not naming names, pointing fingers, or any other such thing except to Disney as a whole, because as a whole they are what created this. It's not MY fault they built an area that was artistically weak and badly engineered. It's not Jim Hill's fault. It's not Al's fault. It's Disney fault, and they made poor choices.
158	jonvn Mon 12/3/2007 1:57p	Oh, and one more thing. The whole "disneyland as a museum" concept as thrown out here is rather ironic, considering what I'm saying was bad was all throwbacks to old Disneyland. The coke machine, the mural, making the building move. That's not what the stupid place is supposed to be about. It's supposed to be about optimism for OUR future. Not ceramic reproductions of old theme park rides. Again, the people who did this? Clueless. This is how companies who were once big and great lose their customers and their value. They forget what they are selling, forget what their customers want, and lose touch with what made them what they are. See GM for another good example of this process. They are big enough to coast along, but they have really fallen down from where they once were.
159	ChurroMonster Tue 12/4/2007 2:58a	But Jon, the Moonliner is awesome! I mean it does this thing that...I mean it really has the wow factor when it...when it shoots up into the...wait. The Moonliner does absolutely nothing. It just sits there and makes a few Disneyland nostalgists giddy. Get rid of the thing already. Oh and that spinning building too.
160	Cindermomster Tue 12/4/2007 5:28a	Hello bean. I am usually a quiet reader of these threads and did like this one in particular. I have always appreciated your input. I would truely enjoy an update on the status of the Peoplemover and Tomorrowland. I know you and those your work with understand how to use the time and money alloted to you to give us the quality show Disney is known for. I look forward (with anticipatation) to anything you can tell us about what is coming to Tomorrowland. Oh and by the way, Thank you very much in advance.

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