Disney Current Events
Topic: Another rumor surfaces about Shanghai Disneyland

#	Author	Message
11	leemac Sun 3/23/2008 5:42a	<<China is rapidly gaining a middle class. While low in percentage terms as compared to the G7 nations, there are so many people to start with that the middle class in China has quite a good number of people in it. I don't think it's at all too early in China's economic development to support a Disney-type resort. >> I'd have to disagree with your reasoning there SD. Although there is a burgeoning middle class in China their idea of what being truly middle class is is very very different to the western ideal. I've spent a lot of time in China with work over the past few years and seeing everyone swarming over LV handbags, Gucci dresses/suits and Breitling/Rolex watches is astounding. The suburbs are growing at an alarming rate. The problem is that their leisure time is usually done on the cheap - seaside resorts with almost hostel-style accommodation. The multitude of Chinese theme parks (and there are hundreds of them) are cheap and unsafe but popular. Only the lower class stays in Shanghai during the summer when it is hot, humid and oppressive - everyone else that can afford to will escape. It is not the ideal location for a leisure destination by a long shot.
12	SuperDry Sun 3/23/2008 1:57p	<<< The multitude of Chinese theme parks (and there are hundreds of them) are cheap and unsafe but popular. >>> But maybe that points to a demand that's not been fulfilled yet. I seem to remember that there was once someone in America that saw no shortage of cheap and surly amusement parks to take the family to, but thought that there was a market for something better, even if the customers themselves didn't know it yet and weren't asking for it. I'm half-way kidding, and half-way serious. You may very well be right about Shanghai not being a good place to build a destination resort. My point wasn't to say that it was, but to counter the claim that China consists only of low-paid labor and that it will be a decade or more before there will be a middle class. The middle class exists in China today in large enough numbers (although smaller percentage-wise than in the G7) to start making decisions. Consider that even if a deal was inked today, it would be several years before a destination resort (if that were to be the deal) would be open for business. The middle class may act very differently than that of other nations, and figuring all that out correctly will of course be the major challenge of Western countries that want to be successful in China. <<< it is hot, humid and oppressive ... It is not the ideal location for a leisure destination by a long shot. >>> That sounds like Hong Kong!
13	leemac Sun 3/23/2008 2:09p	^^ I tell ya Shanghai is many many times worse than Hong Kong - although September 12 2005 will go down in history as the most oppressive day I have ever experienced. :-) As you probably could guess I've spent a lot of time looking at the Chinese market - I am a lot more skeptical about its ability to create true 4- or 5-star destination resorts. It will take a lot of education to change their mindset as it doesn't produce anything tangible - the Chinese middle class believe in ostentatious symbols of wealth which invariably means clothing, cars and property. Japan was a much easier proposition for OLC - they already had the idea of a domestic leisure industry and the Japanese remain the least traveled of the western countries so a trip to industrial Tokyo Bay to immerse yourself in the duo of Disney theme parks isn't a problem. I don't think there are the same positive markers in the Chinese market yet - Mainlanders still aren't flocking to HKDL in their droves despite millions crossing the border into the SAR every year. You are more likely to find them shopping at the Landmark Mandarin Oriental or hanging out at the latest cool bar in Lan Kwai Fong. That is the reality that we are having to grapple with when considering international expansion of Walt Disney Parks & Resorts.
14	SuperDry Sun 3/23/2008 6:17p	<<< ^^ I tell ya Shanghai is many many times worse than Hong Kong - although September 12 2005 will go down in history as the most oppressive day I have ever experienced. :-) >>> That really was unbelievable. And it's not the first time Hong Kong has done that to me in September. Since September 1996 had been my first visit, I just assumed that it was tropical and always like that - who knew Hong Kong actually had seasons? <<< As you probably could guess I've spent a lot of time looking at the Chinese market - I am a lot more skeptical about its ability to create true 4- or 5-star destination resorts. >>> How would you rate the other Disney resorts in terms of stars? <<< Mainlanders still aren't flocking to HKDL in their droves despite millions crossing the border into the SAR every year. >>> Well that's the problem, isn't it? What's Ocean Park's attendance by mainlanders like? I know that when I was there pre-HKDL, there were tons of mainlanders in tour groups.
15	leemac Mon 3/24/2008 3:12a	<<That really was unbelievable. And it's not the first time Hong Kong has done that to me in September. Since September 1996 had been my first visit, I just assumed that it was tropical and always like that - who knew Hong Kong actually had seasons?>> I'd be out there during the construction phase and I can tell you that Opening Day was the worst day I ever experienced in HK by a country mile. <<<<< As you probably could guess I've spent a lot of time looking at the Chinese market - I am a lot more skeptical about its ability to create true 4- or 5-star destination resorts. >>> How would you rate the other Disney resorts in terms of stars?>> It isn't really relevant - DL/HKDL need to be the model for any future development - value and moderate resorts can only really come after you have reached a certain target audience - you just can't base your business model on the likes of All Star. Initial hotel development in the Disney model needs to be 4* plus to attract the kind of on-site guests you need to generate cashflow. Your value guests can only come along once you have reached (almost) saturation on your premium guests - as it can encourage middle-class guests that would typically stay in moderate or upscale to downgrade whereas you typically don't get upgrading from value resorts within that economic bracket. Any way you slice it - there just isn't the mindset in China for a Disney resort destination right now. It would take a lot of education to make it sustainable and I'm not convinced a city like Shanghai can cupport anything other than a day park (for locals) or convention crowds.
16	leemac Mon 3/24/2008 3:14a	<<I'm not convinced a city like Shanghai can cupport anything other than a day park (for locals) or convention crowds.>> Can "support" of course.
17	dshyates Thu 4/3/2008 6:32a	another poster here said the shainghai resort isn't happening, but the Mayor of Shainghai says that its still in the works. There is a stronger chance of a new Disney park in the UAE.
18	BeautysBeast Fri 4/4/2008 8:53p	Or Louisiana
19	dshyates Fri 4/4/2008 9:12p	Lol

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