World Events
Topic: Schwarzenegger To Oppose Same Sex Marriage Ban

#	Author	Message
71	ecdc Thu 4/17/2008 10:29a	>>You're probably right, of course, but I at least wanted to set some basic facts straight.<< I was saying that more for me, really. I have these discussions with people (particularly here in my community in Utah) and it dawned on me that I'm giving their position way too much credence. Again, I would never do that if they were saying black people shouldn't get married, why do I do it for this topic? I do think it's still worthwhile to get some accurate facts out there and share with people why they couldn't be more wrong. But I also think it's worth reminding ourselves of just how silly the conversation is, sometimes. But sometimes we have to engage in silliness because people will insist on believing absurd things (like say, oh, that incest and bestiality is the same as gay marriage).
72	woody Thu 4/17/2008 10:34a	>>And as Dabob2 demonstrated, polygamy and incest is not intrinsic.<< He did not demonstrate it. He gave a definition. He cannot demonstrate it based on his own bias of who he is and isn't. >>"But only Canada's law, which was extended nationwide by Parliament this week, contains language as liberal as Spain's, according to gay marriage advocates."<< You did bring up Canada, which is what I'm refering to where the courts acted first. However, even in Spain, the legalization of same sex marriage will encourage litigation for others who feel left out, thus the slippery slope argument.
73	Dabob2 Thu 4/17/2008 10:43a	>>And as Dabob2 demonstrated, polygamy and incest is not intrinsic.<< <He did not demonstrate it. He gave a definition. He cannot demonstrate it based on his own bias of who he is and isn't.> Again, look up "intrinsic." Get a dictionary. >>"But only Canada's law, which was extended nationwide by Parliament this week, contains language as liberal as Spain's, according to gay marriage advocates."<< <You did bring up Canada, which is what I'm refering to where the courts acted first.> Courts often act first. But it was ultimately passed by the Parliament. <However, even in Spain, the legalization of same sex marriage will encourage litigation for others who feel left out, thus the slippery slope argument.> Have we SEEN this in Spain? No, we have not. We've only seen your irrational fears.
74	ecdc Thu 4/17/2008 10:44a	Once again, we can turn to Stephen Colbert and see how spot on his definition of truthiness is. Woody has exactly zero evidence for his slippery slope argument. In places where gay marriage has been legalized, we see no one marrying their dog, becoming polygamists, or trying to get it on with their brother. But truthiness trumps. It just *feels* right to woody that this would happen. Who needs evidence? He sees gay marriage as bad, and so all the bad things he assumes will happen must be true. No evidence is necessary. And bigotry is still bigotry. Perhaps next we'll be told why we shouldn't allow Chinese people in the United States to marry.
75	woody Thu 4/17/2008 10:46a	>>Have we SEEN this in Spain? No<< We've seen it in Massachusetts.
76	woody Thu 4/17/2008 10:48a	>>Courts often act first.<< This is usually the problem and they will always act first.
77	ecdc Thu 4/17/2008 10:53a	>>We've seen it in Massachusetts.<< I'm sure glad woody backed that up with evidence. Otherwise, I might be tempted to not believe it.
78	Dabob2 Thu 4/17/2008 10:53a	>>Have we SEEN this in Spain? No<< <We've seen it in Massachusetts.> We've seen incest, polygamy or marrying a goat legalized in Massachusetts?
79	barboy Thu 4/17/2008 10:54a	"Nobody is born polygamous." I'm not so sure about that--- I'm not saying you're wrong nor right since it really, at this time, is unprovable. I **feel** that men are born polygamous but I certainly can't prove/test it.
80	Dabob2 Thu 4/17/2008 10:54a	<This is usually the problem and they will always act first.> Another statement you just throw out there blithely. And wrongly. Legislatures often act first. Sometimes they enact things that are unconstitutional. And THEN the court has to step in and say "you can't do that." In fact, legislatures are just as apt to act first as courts are. If you knew history, you'd know this. But you don't.

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