World Events
Topic: Believers: What would change your mind?

#	Author	Message
11	RC Collins Wed 4/23/2008 12:13p	Okay, I'm back. >>1) Aliens from another world visit Earth<< How do we determine that we are actually dealing with aliens from another world, and not a hoax being perpetrated by other earthlings, by spiritual beings (fallen angels), or a delusion? >>and prove unequivocally (through carbon dating, and other corroborated scientific means)<< This assumes that the unnamed means are reliable enough to trust for a definitive determination. >>that THEY in fact wrote all the words in the bible (koran, bagdava-gita etc...) some 200,000 years ago and planted the documents in an effort to examine the effects of religion on a society.<< So these aliens purposely planted conflicting holy books? They don't sound very nice to me. I'll assume that they make it clear that the Bible was fiction. Well then, yes, I would try to ascertain from these seemingly trouble-making aliens what the actual truth is, since they seem to be more advanced than us. The thing is, for certain parts of the Bible, we have a good idea who the authors are, and these are people who lived in history. So, not only would the aliens have had to have written the Bible, they would have also had to have planted items found by archeology and non-Biblical historical accounts as well (that refer to the Bible authors, for example). >>2) Through new advances in medicine, doctors are able to revive an un-tampered with group of corpses which have been deceased for a matter of weeks (I'd say longer but that gets gross, not to mention less possible to be un-tampered with), such formerly dead people having never been informed of the idea or purpose of the experiment...and yet all or most of them return to life and testify to the fact that there is *nothing* beyond.<< So you're saying that there is no mind-body or spirit-body duality, so that there is no consciousness and no "place" for these people to go when they are dead, and like a tape recorder, their mind (brain) stops any awareness at the point of death, and, as far as they know, the next moment is the moment they are being revived? The problem with this scenario is that it does not preclude that there is an afterlife. It would only tend to show that they haven't experienced it yet, OR, if they have, they are not able to remember it upon resuscitation. There are Bible-believers who believe in "soul sleep" or some variation thereof (Jehovah's Witnesses, for example), who don't expect to be returned to awareness/"life" until the end of the world as we know it. So, I wouldn't see this is conflicting with such views. I, however, believe the Bible teaches that we are at least a dichotomy (body and spirit OR soul), perhaps a trichotomy (body, spirit AND soul), and that to be "absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" and that at the end of the world, I'll regain my body, albeit a resurrected and transformed one. Jesus is recorded as having told the one of the thieves crucified alongside Him that they would be in "paradise" together that day. This second experiment would not dissuade me from my general faith. >>If not, would you say that absolutely NOTHING in the way of events or proof could possibly cause you to reconsider your religious viewpoints?<< As wrote in a previous post, there ARE things that could cause me to reconsider my religious viewpoints, because they are not entirely based on internal and subjective things. >>What if god himself came down to earth and said "you were wrong about Jesus, he was just a good guy, not my son". Would you then reject christianity?<< If I could be reasonably certain that this was really God, I would cease worshipping Jesus. As things are now, I believe Jesus is God (though He is not the "Father"). I also believe that the Holy Spirit indwells me (like any other follower of Christ) and that I've experienced His presence in my life. Of course, that aspect is impossible to prove to another person. But if the objective evidence was strong enough against it, I could reconsider all of that as some sort of mental game my brain played on me. To me and many other Christians, the heart of Christianity is fellowship with Jesus Christ. The rest is details. Religion is what springs up around that relationship. Some churches have different styles, different forms of leadership, different songs, different outreaches, different beliefs in secondary doctrines, different ways of administering sacraments... but they can all be Christian churches if they proclaim the core doctrines of Christianity. What I'm getting at is that I first and foremost decide to join a church based on that relationship with Jesus Christ, not all of the rules and practices and aesthetics of the church. It can be a "nice" place, but if it isn't proclaiming sound doctrine, then I wouldn't join. I haven't adopted my beliefs because of the church I attend. I started attending the church I do primarily because of my beliefs.
12	RoadTrip Wed 4/23/2008 12:18p	If non-believers were truly confident in their choice, would they need to talk about it so much? Just wondering... It seems most religious threads here are initiated by the non-believers.
13	sherrytodd Wed 4/23/2008 12:23p	For the record. I have not started a single thread. :P
14	mele Wed 4/23/2008 12:30p	<<If non-believers were truly confident in their choice, would they need to talk about it so much?>> Maybe on LP, but I'm not so sure that's true out in the real world. I mean, most non-believers don't get together on a weekly basis and discuss their non-beliefs about religion. ;-) I'm glad that we can all talk here about these things because I've learned a lot about what people believe, what they don't believe. It's interesting.
15	RoadTrip Wed 4/23/2008 12:44p	<<I'm glad that we can all talk here about these things because I've learned a lot about what people believe, what they don't believe. It's interesting.>> I agree. It just has always seemed curious to me that so many threads about religion were started by X and jonvn, who were among the most vocal about not believing. On the other hand, most gay marriage threads have been started by conservatives, so I guess you tend to talk about the stuff you have no use for.
16	mele Wed 4/23/2008 12:51p	I think we like to talk about issues to define ourselves. When we talk about the things that irritate us, when we keep trying to endlessly prove our point, it's kind of an ego-stroke, you know? For most of us, knowing we're "right" isn't enough. We want others to admit it and if we have to hit them over the head to get them to admit we're right, we're pretty willing to do it. Well, at least I think that's what could be driving some of my participation in WE. I'm working on it. ;-)
17	pecos bill Wed 4/23/2008 1:14p	Religion and non belief kind of go together. Pretty tough to discuss atheism without religion being brought up.
18	DyGDisney Wed 4/23/2008 1:16p	I was going to answer pretty much what RoadTrip answered. If I die, and there is nothing after, well, then, I guess I'd change my mind. But I'd be dead, so couldn't change my mind.
19	mele Wed 4/23/2008 1:25p	^^I think that's why it's important to live your life in the best way possible, living up to your dreams and your own standards. Even if religion turns out to be false, if it brought you peace and comfort and made you into a person you are proud of, then it has all been worth it. (Of course, the same is true if you don't believe. Live your life in a way that you can be proud of and you've done the best you can.)
20	utahjosh Wed 4/23/2008 1:37p	One thing I love about my religion is that it gives everyone an equal opportunity, no matter when they lived or what they believed here on earth. God is an all-knowing and all-loving judge.

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