World Events
Topic: Describe Heaven and Hell

#	Author	Message
91	Elderp Sat 4/26/2008 4:09a	"And it's fine for you to call yourself whatever you want," Isn't that what belief is all about?
92	Mr X Sat 4/26/2008 4:29a	Well, sure. But you have to take into consideration what the others who identify themselves that way might think. I mean, if I were to take my belief in the spiritual truths (for me) of the Eckhart Tolle books, and the fact that he has a lot to say about the old testament, and then call myself a "Jew" based on that...would it be okay?
93	EighthDwarf Sat 4/26/2008 7:08a	Christians essentially believe that all you have to do to be saved is believe and accept Jesus Christ as your savior. Mormons have many requirements to be saved (or go the "celestial kingdom" in their terms) - believing in Jesus simply isn't enough. I think that is why Christians don't consider Mormons Christian. In Mormonism you can't attain the highest level of heaven unless you believe in Joseph Smith.
94	Kar2oonMan Sat 4/26/2008 10:40a	"Fair and just" are not mutually exclusive, IMO. We may not see things as fair. Fair is subjective. The way I believe is that we punish ourselves when we choose ourselves over others, or over God. Pride is probably one of the most common sins. We want what we want and no one is going to tell us otherwise.<< Okay, but I'm talking about basically good people here, who for whatever reason don't have any religious faith at all. Suppose that they honestly cannot feel it. That they cannot in their hearts have faith in angels and devils and heaven and hell. It would be like punishing someone with a disconnected phone line for not answering your calls. While I appreciate that many people DO have that faith in their hearts, that they DO know in their hearts that there is an afterlife, my question is what is the point of dooming a soul to eternal punishment for the call they never received? >>Every moment of every day of our lives is available to ask God to be a part of our lives. We don't have to get our act together first either - He will meet us wherever we are. That's cool and more than fair.<< Okay, but again, that's faith as a choice. Some people describe faith as something they "feel" and something they are called to. Is it fair that some get this calling, which takes on a physical feeling, while others don't ever feel it?
95	DlandJB Sat 4/26/2008 9:41p	Okay, but again, that's faith as a choice. Some people describe faith as something they "feel" and something they are called to. Is it fair that some get this calling, which takes on a physical feeling, while others don't ever feel it?>>> I know people who feel that way..good people. To me, believing is more about a choice than a feeling. Just like falling in love. Initially there is that awesome feeling, but there are times when we follow even when faith is weak or circumstances are bitter. That's kind of where the rubbe meets the road -- can't just believe when it feels good. As far as judgement, though. I will always leave that to God and never state one person is damned and another isn't. Only God knows their hearts.
96	schoolsinger Sat 4/26/2008 11:52p	I have done a lot of Bible study on this subject. I tried to cut through many of things preachers say about the after life and tried to find what the Bible really says. I have come to the following conclusions. 1. Heaven is a place where God and His angels dwell, and is NOT a place where dead people go. 2. Everyone, saved or not, goes to Hades when they die. However there is a good place and a bad place in Hades. 3. In the future all of the believers who have died will be resurrected from the dead. The ultimate destiny of believers is to have eternal life rather than eternal afterlife. 4. After the resurrection the believers will rule with Jesus over the Earth for a thousand years. The unbelievers who have died will stay dead during this time. The rest who are still living at the time will remain on Earth but will not have leadership positions. At the end of the thousand years many will try to over through the government ruled by Jesus and his saints but will die trying. 5. After the thousand years God will destroy the Earth. Then He will start over and create a new Earth that is much better than the old one. Those who are written in the Book of Life will get to live forever on this new Earth. Everyone else will get discarded into the lake of fire.
97	Mr X Sat 4/26/2008 11:59p	Did you study with the Jehovah's Witnesses? That sounds very similar to their take on things, although they're also specific of exactly HOW many people are going where, and assume all that is predestined anyway (they're not big on free will, I gather). At least, that's what I've heard. I don't know much about that group. ***Everyone else will get discarded into the lake of fire.*** Lovely sentiment.
98	EighthDwarf Sun 4/27/2008 8:35a	<<I have done a lot of Bible study on this subject. I tried to cut through many of things preachers say about the after life and tried to find what the Bible really says. I have come to the following conclusions.....>> Wow, that's pretty detailed. A few variations aside, I think that is pretty much how all Christians view the heaven/hell scenario. <<***Everyone else will get discarded into the lake of fire.*** Lovely sentiment.>> Proof that Christians believe god is a jerk. Further proof: 1. people are saved by grace (aka god's whim), not by what they do in life. SO those who go to chruch each Sunday can feel good about being "chosen" while the rest of the world represents god's bastard step-children who will get burned soon enough. 2. you must believe in Jesus to be saved - what about all those who never heard of him? 3. Eternal salvation is based on the decisions we make in a blink of an eye (compared with the length of eternity) here on earth. 4. Those who are saved are supposed to enjoy heaven forever while some of our friends or relatives are burning endlessly in a lake of fire. 5. We are supposed to believe in a two-thousand year old fairy-tale of which there is virtually no proof it ever happened. Looking back through two thousand years of history we see how flawed that group of followers is. And those of us who don't believe are to be thrown into the aforementioned lake of fire. Jesus, can you blame us for not believing??
99	schoolsinger Sun 4/27/2008 9:07a	"Did you study with the Jehovah's Witnesses?" No. I was just trying to study the Bible myself and come to my own conclusions. What I have found is that often in churches is that cultural ideas get mixed in with the scripture and produce teaching that differs from what the authors of the Bible were really trying to say. So I was deliberately trying to ignore the teachings of churches, and set aside many pre conceived ideas and really try to find out what the authors of the Bible were really trying to communicate. Some of the conclusions I have come to even differ from what my own church teaches.
100	Elderp Sun 4/27/2008 9:36a	"No. I was just trying to study the Bible myself and come to my own conclusions. " Although I do not agree with your conclusions I will commend you on your effort in seeking the truth. I believe that everyone, in order to progress spiritually, at some point in their life make an unbiases search for what they trully believe. I am not saying traditions are bad, but they lose their meaning if we don't understand why we perpetuate them.

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