World Events
Topic: Describe Heaven and Hell

#	Author	Message
101	Kar2oonMan Sun 4/27/2008 10:14a	Devilish Dalmatians
102	schoolsinger Sun 4/27/2008 6:44p	1 Timothy 2:3,4 "this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." As hard it is for some to grasp, God does really want everyone to come to the truth and be saved. But if that is the case, why are still people who are not saved? Well, here is a story that might shed some light on this topic. And it reveales some interesting info on Hades as well. Luke 16:19-31 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. "Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' 27 "Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.'" I think the people who do not get saved are the ones that could not be persuaded no matter what. Like in the above example, the five brothers would not even repent if someone came back from the dead and warned them about the bad part in Hades. Revelation 20:7-9 "Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them." At this time Christ will have already come down to Earth and will have been there for a thousand years, and His existence will be plainly obvious to everyone on the planet. Yet people will still not accept him. This reminds me some about that "Non-believers: What would change your mind?" topic on this board. I really think that with many people, they just flat out won't accept Him no matter what He does short of direct mind control. Here is an analogy I have came up with to try to explain my point. Try to think of God as like Santa Clause. And picture your heart as like your house. Santa wants to give you a gift. First, he try to come down your chimney. If that is blocked off, he will try the front door. If that is locked, he will try the back door. If the back door is locked too, he will try the windows. If you block off every possible way in, he will give up, and you won't get the gift. It is a similar sort of thing with the gift of salvation. If there is an opening in your heart for Jesus, He will exploit it. If there is no opening in your heart for Him, then you are out of luck. When God rebuilds the Earth for the second time, He is going to want everything to be good on the planet this time around. And I don't think it is His plan to have the world filled with a bunch of people who want nothing to do with Him.
103	Mr X Mon 4/28/2008 7:20a	***"Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.'" I think the people who do not get saved are the ones that could not be persuaded no matter what. Like in the above example, the five brothers would not even repent if someone came back from the dead and warned them about the bad part in Hades.*** Or so Abraham assumed. So much for freewill, those guys weren't even given a chance when their brother (who obviously felt repentant and also seemed to care for his brothers) begged for them to be warned. Nice. That's a really stupid story. I don't like it one bit. What's the moral, anyway? Besides rich = bad, I mean.
104	Mr X Mon 4/28/2008 7:23a	***At this time Christ will have already come down to Earth and will have been there for a thousand years, and His existence will be plainly obvious to everyone on the planet. Yet people will still not accept him.*** Gee, if this free will thing is such a universal truth, how can one make such an assumption? Given the fact we supposedly have free will, AND the fact that god supposedly wants EVERYONE to be saved (which to me indicates he also thinks it's possible, or why would be bother saying it?), who's to say whether even a single person wouldn't accept Jesus if he were on Earth and preaching the same stuff?
105	EighthDwarf Mon 4/28/2008 8:25a	<<Gee, if this free will thing is such a universal truth, how can one make such an assumption?>> Everyone has free as long as they choose the right thing I guess.
106	plpeters70 Mon 4/28/2008 10:56a	"Besides rich = bad, I mean." Well, of course being rich is bad. Because rich, comfortable people aren't constantly thinking about how bad their lives are, and turning to the church for "comfort". As our modern society has shown, people who live comfortable lives are a lot less concerned with the "next life" and attend church a lot less. Unless, of course, you come up with a way to scare the rich people into church as well -- say by calling their comfort and complacency a "sin".
107	Elderp Mon 4/28/2008 2:27p	I believe we are all free to do whatever we want (good or bad). We are not however, free of the consequences of our decisions. Every decision we make has a consequence attached to it, it is up to you to decide if it is worth it or not.
108	EighthDwarf Mon 4/28/2008 6:11p	<<As our modern society has shown, people who live comfortable lives are a lot less concerned with the "next life" and attend church a lot less.>> I haven't seen that to be true at all. In my experience, the suburbs are jam-packed with well-to-do folks that go to church quite regularly. In fact, I have always found it odd that so many of those folks that drive their massive SUVs and live in their gated communities would be so faithful. After all, being attached to material things seems exactly what Jesus taught NOT to do.
109	cmpaley Mon 4/28/2008 6:53p	>>I know that "mainstream" christians don't use the term Christian in the same way. To them, a Christian must share the same beliefs about the nature of god and other details that we just don't share. I consider myself a Christian, as in I worship Jesus Christ as my savior.<< Here's the rub. We're not talking about the same Jesus Christ. To the Catholics, Orthodox and most Protestants, He is truly the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father, through Whom all things were made. He died for our sins and is Prophet, Priest and King. To the Jehovah's Witnesses, Jesus is actually Michael the Archangel and not God made man. To the Mormons, He's one of many of God's spiritual children. To the Muslims, He's merely a prophet. Unless we agree on Who Jesus Christ is, how can we claim to follow Him?
110	plpeters70 Mon 4/28/2008 8:04p	"After all, being attached to material things seems exactly what Jesus taught NOT to do." That was my second point about them making being "rich and comfortable" a sin. Nothing fills pews better than a little guilt. All the rich people feel the need to go to church to cleanse themselves of their "sin" of being well-off.

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