World Events
Topic: Describe Heaven and Hell

#	Author	Message
131	schoolsinger Wed 4/30/2008 1:55p	Here is my understanding about the issue of whether or not Jesus is our brother. Jesus is the only BEGOTTEN (direct offspring) son of the Father. However, believers become ADOPTED sons/daughters of the Father. So technically, that would make Jesus my step brother.
132	mele Wed 4/30/2008 2:23p	<<"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your father which is in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:48 What do you think He meant by that?>> Hm, that you're good enough the way you are and don't need organized religion at all?
133	utahjosh Wed 4/30/2008 2:37p	Mele, honestly that's a pretty good insight when considering that scripture alone. But Jesus said other things that make a organized religion pretty important, if you follow Him.
134	mele Thu 5/1/2008 9:22a	I was just sitting here thinking about how people supposedly saved their souls before Jesus' time. They had to slaughter animals, blood atonement. What an absurd concept on many levels. First of all, how does killing an innocent animal mean that I am now good enough to spend eternity with God? Second of all, do I really want to spend an eternity with a God with some sort of creepy blood lust? Third, God decided that no more animals should die but in order for that to happen, his son had to be tortured to death? What? WHAT is up with this desire for blood? I can't fathom a God who is interested in such things. It makes no sense at all. I keep hearing how God is a jealous, vengeful God, who loves me but being a loving, kind and good person isn't enough to spend eternity at peace in Heaven with him. I have to swear my allegiance to him and Jesus or I will spend eternity in unimaginable misery. Is that all life is...we're just pawns in some stupid game where if we don't stroke God's ego enough, we're damned to Hell? I don't know...yet more examples of how people have chosen to label and limit God with base human characteristics. I don't believe in that God.
135	utahjosh Thu 5/1/2008 9:53a	Mele, I understand that the sacrifice of animals in the the old testament was in reference to the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that was to come. I don't think it was the animal's death that saved people, but it was obedience and symbolic of the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ. As to why Jesus Christ had to bleed, suffer, and die for mankind to save us, I don't know. I don't know why *that* was the penalty for sin. I chalk it up to being an eternal kind of law that we just don't understand. <I have to swear my allegiance to him and Jesus or I will spend eternity in unimaginable misery. > I don't believe that.
136	EighthDwarf Thu 5/1/2008 2:53p	<<I don't believe that.>> WHAT???? What do you do in the place I have agreed not to talk about anymore?
137	EighthDwarf Thu 5/1/2008 3:01p	Regarding the whole blood sacrifice thing, I heard someone try to explain it by the following: 1. Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden 2. They sinned 3. They suddenly knew they were naked and hid 4. Commanded commanded them to cover themselves 5. The fig leaves could only do so much 6. In order to make clothes, they had to kill animals and use their skins as coverings 7. So in essence, the death of the animals covered up their nakedness (or at least the awareness of it) which was a result of their sin ************************************** Question: does that mean we're going to be naked in heaven?
138	utahjosh Thu 5/1/2008 3:21p	Mele mentioned a philosophy: <<I have to swear my allegiance to him and Jesus or I will spend eternity in unimaginable misery. > I responded: <I don't believe that> Dwarf replied: <WHAT???? What do you do in the place I have agreed not to talk about anymore?> My reply: I believe you need to follow and be obedient to Jesus Christ to be exalted and saved in the highest degree of heaven, and to live with God. I do that at Baptism, and every week when I partake of the emblems of His death, and in similar ceremonies in the Temple. I DO NOT believe that those who do not follow him completely will live in "unimaginable misery." My view of heaven is filled with three degrees of GLORY, not 1 degree of glory and 2 degrees of endless suffering.
139	Mr X Thu 5/1/2008 5:34p	***an eternal kind of law*** If god is all-powerful, why should there be any sort of eternal laws he has to follow?
140	utahjosh Thu 5/1/2008 6:57p	<If god is all-powerful, why should there be any sort of eternal laws he has to follow?> Good question, I don't know. I think God is all-powerful because he knows all truth. He knows all eternal laws. And He is loved by his creations (except some of us) and that adds to His power. It seems rational to me that there are eternal laws that must be followed. Things that keep the universe in order. Things that allow us to exist. Things that we can't understand, but things that just ARE. I don't know, though. It's mind-boggling.

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