| # | Author | Message |
151
| EighthDwarf
Fri 5/2/2008 11:42a | <<Again, I "storm off" when people go from person conversation to their "tried and true" anti-Mormon jargon, popular quotes, and the like. I don't want to waste my time re-hashing those popular anti-Mormon topics time and time again.>>
I love how you discount information as "anti-Mormon" jargon. I'm trying to have a real discussion with you josh but you make it really hard when you ask me to support my argument and then when I do you get flustered and throw in the towel. |
152
| utahjosh
Fri 5/2/2008 11:48a | Eighth, what honest questions do you have?
What do you sincerely have a problem in this discussion?
I'm not willing to spend my time going back and forth on topics and quotes that have been used and defended against time and time again. |
153
| EighthDwarf
Fri 5/2/2008 11:54a | <<<I have to swear my allegiance to him and Jesus or I will spend eternity in unimaginable misery. >
I don't believe that.>>
I challenged this statement josh because I believe that is exactly what you believe in. If I'm wrong, let me know.
I didn't really go into the temple ceremony at all (just referred to the film) out of respect. But if you need me to illustrate exactly what I mean I can.
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154
| utahjosh
Fri 5/2/2008 12:06p | Thank you for keeping that respect. I won't continue a discussion with you about the temple ceremony on these boards.
According to my understanding and my beliefs (I attend the Temple regularly, so I'm not ignorant to what is taught there) I do not believe that those who don't follow Jesus will spend eternity in unimaginable misery.
I believe that only those "sons of perdition" and Satan and his angels will live in unimaginable misery. The thing closest to the famous understanding of "Hell," which we call Outer Darkness.
Everyone else (the vast majority) of people on earth will live in one of the wonderful Kingdoms of Glory in the afterlife.
That's what I believe.
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155
| EighthDwarf
Fri 5/2/2008 1:07p | Gotcha, thanks for the clarification. I suppose I may be thinking more about people in my situation - those who have sworn and turned away. I suppose that puts me down as a "son of perdition". I've been called worse I think (but maybe not).
But I believe you're right. Those who don't go through what I have are probably pretty safe from the "unimaginable misery". They just don't get to go to the top of the celestial skyscraper.
Moral of the story kids: unless you are prepared to honor all of your oaths, don't become a temple-going Mormon.
Side note: I don't know where to find the quote, but didn't Joseph Smith say one time that he had seen hell and it actually wasn't that bad of a place? Let's hope he's right about that at least. |
156
| utahjosh
Fri 5/2/2008 1:17p | <I suppose I may be thinking more about people in my situation - those who have sworn and turned away. I suppose that puts me down as a "son of perdition". >
Well, I wouldn't even assume that. Breaking that covenant doesn't make you a son of perdition. From what I understand, to earn that kind of suffering you have to know God. No doubts, no questions, and still reject Him.
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157
| Kar2oonMan
Fri 5/2/2008 2:22p | >>didn't Joseph Smith say one time that he had seen hell and it actually wasn't that bad of a place?<<
I think he was referring to Six Flags. |
158
| ecdc
Fri 5/2/2008 2:33p | >>Side note: I don't know where to find the quote, but didn't Joseph Smith say one time that he had seen hell and it actually wasn't that bad of a place? Let's hope he's right about that at least.<<
There's two possibilities to what you might be thinking. First, he did say that if the Mormons went to hell they'd turn out the devil and make a heaven out of it. Even as a non-believer, I love this sentiment. Our destinies are decided by us, not some mythic space daddy who assigns people to heaven or hell as he pleases.
The second possibility is when he said that the telestial kingdom (the lowest-tier of the Mormon three-fold heaven) was a much, much better place than earth is now. Mormons don't really believe in hell in the traditional sense. They believe in "degrees of glory" that, depending on valiance on earth, you will earn.
As one who thinks it's all bunk, I do think Mormon theology represents someone (Joseph Smith) rethinking traditional Christianity and making a whole hell of a lot more sense out of it. Joseph Smith's god (though still full of problems) makes way more sense than the Nicene Creed's god. |
159
| mele
Fri 5/2/2008 3:30p | Mythic space daddy? LOL |
160
| imadisneygal
Fri 5/2/2008 4:13p | I was thinking that would be a sweet name for a band... |
