World Events
Topic: Describe Heaven and Hell

#	Author	Message
51	pecos bill Thu 4/24/2008 6:19p	I just refuse to prostrate myself to anything, especially a religion, that essentially resorts to threats and rewards in order to gain converts. And what greater threat could the human mind conceive but an eternity of boiling and bubbling away in never ending torment. To the confident non-believer, Hell is simply pathetic in it's archaic, bumbling concept. Pure madness! The evil is not Hell, the evil is the miserable, creepy old vultures who thought it up. As for Heaven, the reward, the lollipop, the eternity of bliss for being a good little sheep and doing exactly as you are told. We have seen what the World is with the overwhelming belief in the concept of Heaven and Hell. Without religion and superstition ever having tainted it, I venture to say that this world would be Heaven.
52	EighthDwarf Thu 4/24/2008 8:21p	"Without religion and superstition ever having tainted it, I venture to say that this world would be Heaven." While I am not a fan of religion in general, I don't think it's fair to say this. I think there is plenty of hellish things in this world that have nothing to do with religion. And religious folk have done (and still do) some pretty amazing things.
53	cmpaley Thu 4/24/2008 8:55p	>>>>That means eternal torment and regret for choosing as they did.<< That's a long time. Essentially, this means that a person's brief time on earth "makes or breaks" their eternal soul. Forever. I have a hard time accepting that concept. And so they spend the rest of all time regretting the choices they made in this life and being punished for it. Why? If no one sees their suffering here on earth, how would we learn from that? How would the condemned soul learn from their mistakes? We are here for a fraction of a second at best in relation to eternity. It seems awfully strict that God would give us the boot for all time for being all-too-human. Talk about holding a grudge!<< It's not about God holding a grudge. He's done everything possible except force (which would go against what love is) to draw people to HIm. It's about the nature of eternity. There is no linear time in eternity and since time is change from one moment to the next, there's no way for a person who is in hell to get out, even if they wanted to (and considering the alternative is to be with God, who they hate, they'd rather stay there, just without the painful part) But that's the problem...the worst pain of hell is spiritual existence outside of God's presence...sort of like a state of perpetual starvation because only God can satisfy the needs of the human soul). I don't understand it and I hate the very existence of hell. I can only say what I believe, whether or not I like it.
54	Mr X Thu 4/24/2008 9:30p	***It's not about God holding a grudge.*** How do you know? Doesn't it say somewhere that god is a jealous god? Someone like that sure could hold a grudge. ***He's done everything possible*** Um, no. Certainly not. If that were true, why wouldn't all religion be the same? He can't even keep all his churches from splintering off from each other. And THAT'S the actual believers. No way he's "done everything possible". That's just silly. Obviously, god hasn't given everyone a phone call or email to say "hey guys, just wanted you to know I'm doing everything possible to make sure you don't go to hell". And that's pretty simple. Wouldn't ever require any use of godlike powers. Just a phone card and a lot of time to spare (which, since we're talking eternity, is definitely not an issue).
55	Mr X Thu 4/24/2008 9:32p	***There is no linear time in eternity*** How do you know? Is that written somewhere? If so, by whom? Did they go to eternity and back in order to investigate that? These are serious questions, by the way. I'm not trying to mock. But I find it incredible that people can make these unequivocal statements about eternity and the afterlife as though they'd already experienced it.
56	Mr X Thu 4/24/2008 9:41p	***the alternative is to be with God, who they hate, they'd rather stay there*** This baffles me. I don't believe in Santa Claus either, but does that mean I hate "him", or even the very concept? Certainly not. Look, I don't believe in god. However, I also acknowledge the fact that I'm a human and that makes me limited in my ability to comprehend the Universe. If it turns out there IS a god, I'd be delighted. Who wouldn't? If I had the chance to talk with him, I'd certainly appologize for having been skeptical, and thank him for creating this wonderful Universe for all of us. And even if I ended up in hell (I can think of better reasons for that than not believing in god, heck I'm far from a perfect person), I suppose maybe I'd resent him if I thought he put me there maybe. Or maybe not. Still, why would I hate him? I'd probably hate myself for having missed the boat, sure. That's just such an astounding statement. There are plenty of evil people on Earth, and heck I wouldn't say I "hate" them either. Some of their deeds make me angry, of course. So god, who never commits bad deeds and is all good...well, why the heck would I hate him? Weird.
57	Kar2oonMan Thu 4/24/2008 10:05p	>>There is no linear time in eternity<< I don't even understand what that means. >>there's no way for a person who is in hell to get out, even if they wanted to<< So what lesson is learned? What is the point of it? In other words, typically when you want to teach a human being a lesson, you either make an example of a wrongdoer. So that everyone more or less sees the consequences of certain things. There's got to be some point for the punishment. So, a person gets sent down to hell, forever, and who learns from that? Do they? So, they learn from it, yet they're stuck there forever. How is this in any way something a loving God would do?
58	Kar2oonMan Thu 4/24/2008 10:12p	And what's wrong with the people who get to heaven, ayway? How can they live (afterlive?) with themselves knowing that while they're living it up, all these other poor souls are in torment forever. How selfish! It would drive me nuts. I'd wind up opening my big mouth about it and wind up getting the boot. Or sent back to earth as a can of Spam or something.
59	Mr X Thu 4/24/2008 10:36p	***How can they live (afterlive?) with themselves knowing that while they're living it up, all these other poor souls are in torment forever. How selfish!*** K2M, you have just touched upon one of my very favorite heaven conundrums! Since heaven, by definition, is a place of eternal happiness, peace, and bliss, how is it possible that all the residents up there can be perfectly happy when we must assume based on almost EVERY major religion that at least SOME of them must have at least ONE loved one burning in hell? I can only speak for myself, but what I can say UNIQUIVOCALLY is that I could NEVER be happy knowing that someone I loved and cared for is suffering. The only way that is even POSSIBLE would be if I were altered beyond all recognition of myself, and that would be a different being entirely anyway. Another aspect of this, with particular emphasis on catholic teachings, is the idea that *I* perhaps could be saved if I finally, someday "see the light" and truly repent despite my current lack of faith and far from holy life thus far. And yet some other pious and devout person could, at the end of a long and hardworking life, just really lose it in their last month on Earth, reject god, and end up burning in hell. How could I be happy knowing that person worked a heck of a lot harder than I to earn a place up there with god, but I just got lucky.
60	utahjosh Fri 4/25/2008 12:11a	<The real question is, if god is a dude like everyone seems to assume, isn't he terribly frustrated after all these zillions of years, with no goddess? I mean, even Santa has Mrs. Claus right?> Amen, brother.

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