World Events
Topic: What is a Christian to you?

#	Author	Message
111	utahjosh Thu 5/1/2008 8:08p	Dwarf, I refuse to continue this conversation with your twisted lies.
112	Mr X Thu 5/1/2008 8:14p	***"I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet . . . " (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408-409).*** Wow. Reminds me of John Lennon saying "we're bigger than Jesus" (and he had a better point, I'd say)
113	SingleParkPassholder Thu 5/1/2008 8:17p	Lennon said it tongue in cheek, though.
114	Mr X Thu 5/1/2008 8:24p	Yes, he did. ***Dwarf, I refuse to continue this conversation with your twisted lies.*** Seems to me that explaining the truth would be preferable to refusing to converse.
115	cmpaley Thu 5/1/2008 10:23p	>>"The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood -- was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, page 115).<< I think this is what we call blasphemy. I'd like to know the basis for the mormon idea that the Church Jesus left behind didn't have the authority to baptize. I'd also like to know what mormons believe the effects of baptism are. Let me give you the orthodox teaching on baptism: Baptism takes away original sin, all personal sins and all punishment due to sin. It makes the baptized person a participant in the divine life of the Trinity through sanctifying grace, the grace of justification which incorporates one into Christ and into His Church. It gives one a share in the priesthood of Christ and provides the basis for communion with all Christians. It bestows the theological virtues and the gifts of the Holy Spirit. A baptized person belongs forever to Christ. He is marked with the indelible seal of Christ (character). As a note, a person can lose sanctifying grace (salvation) through the commission (or ommission) of a sin that is serious in gravity with full knowledge and consent of the will, but they will forever belong to Christ. Of course, sacramental confession restores santifying grace (salvation).
116	cmpaley Thu 5/1/2008 10:27p	>>***God can't lie.*** Of course he can, if he exists. He can do whatever he wants. He's god, for pete's sake. You have actually boxed the guy into a corner so far that he actually DOESN'T have god-like powers anymore because of all your (or his!? that's bizarre) self-imposed restrictions. Any regular human can lie, are you telling me god is incapable of it? What an insult. Hope you don't get struck down for your insolence!<< Didn't you see Dogma? While the movie was ultimately sacreligious at best, there was very little there that wasn't based on actual Catholic dogma...which was the POINT of keeping Bartleby and Loki from walking through those doors. Everything exists because of God's Word being true. If God were to lie, His nature would be duplicitous and all of existence would cease instantly. Haven't you studied philosophy?
117	cmpaley Thu 5/1/2008 10:29p	By the way, the section on Baptism in post 115 is attributed to the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, question 263.
118	mele Thu 5/1/2008 10:33p	There are just so many rules and rituals with some religions. I can't fathom a God who requires so much, especially when so many of the rules and rituals seem so superficial and arbitrary. The more humans define God, the more absurd it gets.
119	Mr X Thu 5/1/2008 10:43p	Agreed, Mele. And about the whole "if god tells a lie, all existence would end", how about this for philosophy... If in fact all of existence would cease instantly, that means that god has the means to commit suicide if he should wish to. Either that, or he might not wish his own death but it would happen anyway (should he do something as simple as telling a lie). Either way, that proves that god is not all-powerful nor completely eternal, given the right set of circumstances.
120	ChurroMonster Fri 5/2/2008 1:31a	utahjosh: "Shouldn't anyone who follows Christ as a savior be called a Christian?" How can Christ be your savior if he only partially saved you? I've taught the second discussion. I know that Mormon teachings teach that there are things one must do before Jesus' saving acts take effect. Mormons believe in a partial savior. Christians believe the savior did everything for them. I am not saying one is more right than the other but there is a difference. I find it ironic that Mormons today try to prove how mainstream they are when early church leaders tried to make it very clear how apart they were from the rest of the world. Keep calling yourselves Christian and you might just become a part of that awful hypocritical mess that is mainstream Christianity.

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