World Events
Topic: What is a Christian to you?

#	Author	Message
121	ChurroMonster Fri 5/2/2008 1:43a	utahjosh: "<You claim the Book of Mormom to be another testament of Jesus Christ when it's real purpose is to be a testimony of Joseph Smith> ABSURD. The book says nothing (well, 1 thing) about Joseph Smith. It is FULL of witnesses of Jesus Christ. He is what the book is about." You are wrong. The sole purpose of the book is to prove Jospeh Smith was a prophet. Think about what you asked investigators to pray about. If the Book of Mormon is tru then Joseph was a true prophet and if he was a true prophet....It's a vital step in Mormon theology. I know. I taught it myself. There is nothing Jesus Christ taught that is in the BoM that isn't in the bible.
122	ChurroMonster Fri 5/2/2008 1:54a	utahjosh: "Disavow EVERYTHING Christians have done? You are wrong. And I suppose anyone reading our back and forth converstations on the topic can see that you are incorrect, or at least a little deluded from bitterness or something. I'm LDS, and I celebrate many great things done by Christians since the time of Christ. I love the writings of CS Lewis and others, I love the Bible, and it's thanks to Christians that I have it and I'm able to read and study it. How is that disavowing EVERYTHING Christians have done? " You beleive that every rite and ritual performed for over 1800 years in the name of Christ is invalid because they lacked the proper priesthood authority. Rendering acts that many millions have gone to their grave believing were holy and valid, invaild, is the very act of disavowing their faith.
123	ChurroMonster Fri 5/2/2008 2:00a	utahjosh: "Dwarf, I refuse to continue this conversation with your twisted lies." There were no lies.
124	ChurroMonster Fri 5/2/2008 2:03a	Sorry for so many back-to-back posts. I came to this topic late.
125	Elderp Fri 5/2/2008 4:21a	"...no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 289). I love it when Anti-LDS use this quote. It is so out of context. I bet you don't even know or have read the rest of the sentence, let alone the page. Luckily, I have this book and I have read the page. Anyhow, if you read the rest of the sentence you will find that Brigham Young says Joseph Smith holds the keys to this dispensation. Which yes is what we believe. We believe there was an Apostasy and the authority of this dispensation (ie. the church today) was given to Joseph Smith. Therefore, Joseph Smith to us was the first prophet of this dispensation and therefore the ordinances we recieve today came through the authority given to him. I am starting to doubt that you were ever LDS, you should of known this fact if you were really a missionary. You should of known I would of given this arguement. I would of expected a much more detailed arguement from you really.
126	Mr X Fri 5/2/2008 4:23a	Um, is there any way you could actually provide the context?
127	EighthDwarf Fri 5/2/2008 11:02a	<<Anyhow, if you read the rest of the sentence you will find that Brigham Young says Joseph Smith holds the keys to this dispensation. Which yes is what we believe.>> How does that change the context? The point is still valid that without Joseph Smith people can't get to the celestial kingdom so it requires more than just believing in Jesus. So you believe the priesthood (which JS restored) is required to save you, not Jesus. <<I am starting to doubt that you were ever LDS, you should of known this fact if you were really a missionary. You should of known I would of given this arguement. I would of expected a much more detailed arguement from you really.>> Ad hominim.....disappointing but typical. Churro can vouch that I was indeed a missionary - we were in the MTC together.
128	Elderp Fri 5/2/2008 4:05p	"Um, is there any way you could actually provide the context?" Its Brigham Young talking about priesthood authority. Basically the point is that the priesthood was restored through Joseph Smith. So yeah basically, if you don't follow the church established by Joseph Smith your not getting into the celestial kingdom. Doesn't mean your going to hell, but your not going to live with Jesus either.
129	utahjosh Fri 5/2/2008 4:13p	It's similar to thinking "I believe in Jesus Christ, but I reject Peter, James and John." It would be silly to do so. If you reject Peter, you are rejecting a servant and representative of Jesus Christ, and thus rejecting Jesus. If Joseph Smith REALLY WAS a prophet and representative of Jesus Christ, who are you really rejecting if you reject Joseph?
130	gadzuux Fri 5/2/2008 4:34p	So you have to not only worship jesus, but also joseph smith to gain admission into the 'celestial kingdom'. And be baptized all square and proper-like. I'll ask this again - does this sound like god to you? Sounds more like roz in 'monsters inc' - you must compleeeete your paaaaperwork.

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