World Events
Topic: What is a Christian to you?

#	Author	Message
211	EighthDwarf Mon 5/5/2008 2:17p	<<I do believe that families are forever, and that I will be married to my wife forever, with the ability to continue to have children.>> Not to de-rail the subject or anything, but I have always had a problem with this. If we are children of god, then what does it matter if we are married, sealed together for eternity, etc.? We will all be together with our "father" right? Living as one big celestial family? And I think Jesus, when asked about marriage in heaven, said something like people aren't married in heaven, they are like angels. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of being with my wife and kids forever. But I have always thought it to be more of an earthly arrangement than a heavenly one.
212	cmpaley Mon 5/5/2008 5:59p	Just a note...Jesus didn't come to "set things right." He came to redeem the world (Gal. 4:4-5 - "In when the time had fully come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem thosew ho were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons."). Ever hear the Martyrology that's read at Christmas? "The Eighth of the Calends of January (24th of December) The year from the creation of the world, when in the beginning God created heaven and earth, five thousand one hundred and ninety-nine: From the deluge, the year two thousand nine hundred and fifty-seven: From the birth of Abraham, the year two thousand and fifteen: From Moses and the going out of the people of Israel from Egypt, the year one thousand five hundred and ten: From David's being anointed king, the year one thousand and thirty-two: In the sixty-fifth week according to the prophecy of Daniel: In the one hundred and ninety-fourth Olympiad: From the building of the city of Rome, the year seven hundred and fifty-two: In the forty-second year of the reign of Octavian Augustus: The whole world being in peace: In the sixth age of the world: Jesus Christ, the eternal God, and Son of the eternal Father, wishing to consecrate this world by his most merciful coming, being conceived of the Holy Spirit, and nine months since his conception having passed, In Bethlehem of Juda is born of the Virgin Mary, being made Man: THE NATIVITY OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST ACCORDING TO THE FLESH!"
213	Mr X Mon 5/5/2008 6:08p	Those dates seem a bit off.
214	cmpaley Mon 5/5/2008 6:11p	The point of the Christmas Martyrology is to make a theological point, not to be a science text. And relative to the Adam, Abraham, Moses and David parts, it's probably correct. As to the creation issue, the Church stands open as to time frames and processes (bet you didn't know THAT!).
215	Mr X Mon 5/5/2008 6:16p	Yes, I knew that. A fairly recent development IIRC, and one which was a long time coming. But relative to the ADAM part? Ain't he part of the creation story? Then, no. Off by a few hundred thousand years, at least.
216	cmpaley Mon 5/5/2008 6:36p	My mistake...Adam isn't mentioned in the Martyrology. By the way, when it comes to origins, there are only two things we are required, as Catholics to believe. 1. God created everything. How He did it is open to personal opinion. 2. We must believe that our first parents, Adam and Eve, were unique (possessing a human soul) and that they did commit the first sin. This is one place where Catholics really diverge from our fundie and evangelical brethren (of course, there's Tradition, Mary and the saints, purgatory, the Real Presence, Sacramental theology....).
217	mele Tue 5/6/2008 7:48a	So nice of God to put a tree of fruit into the Garden of Eden and then tell Adam and Eve not to eat it. What the heck is that about? Is that really all life is? Meh
218	DisneyFreak96 Tue 5/6/2008 8:24a	<<1. God created everything. How He did it is open to personal opinion.>> Which is why Popes Pius XII and later, John Paul II were able to get away with saying evolution is consistent with Catholic beliefs and a theological non-issue. Mele, I bring things into my house all the time, such as medicine, lock it up and get angry at my cats if they get near the area I store them. Does that mean I don't love them?
219	mele Tue 5/6/2008 8:49a	I'm not sure a cat and medicine is quite the best analogy. At least medicine has a purpose, a need. What purpose did this supposed Tree of Knowledge have? Just to tempt humans into failing? Great. So, using your analogy, instead of medicine, it's more like putting a salmon steak on your kitchen counter and making sure your cat knows it's there. Point it out to the cat and then tell the cat "no". That makes it sound like God just likes to tempt us with things and if we fail, then we get to go to Hell. Being a good person who rarely yields to temptation isn't enough, though. We have to ask for forgiveness and heap praise on God and Jesus, and then we are allowed into Heaven. That sounds like something a human would do, not an all-knowing, omnipotent God. I just don't buy it. As a loving parent, I don't specifically tempt my children to test them. I wouldn't specifically go out of town and leave my teenaged son at home just to see if he throws a party. To tempt people on purpose is to manipulate them, toy with them. Tempting someone isn't a loving thing to do. I just don't see God doing things like that. That seems like a human explanation to me. I'm not saying that God doesn't exist, and I'm not saying bad things about God because I don't think God behaves this way. My complaint is that I think traditional views on what God are lacking. I think humans have defined and limited him with too many human characteristics. When I hear people say things like "good works will not get you into Heaven" because "you must accept Jesus as the only way to get to God"...I cringe. It just doesn't make sense to me.
220	mele Tue 5/6/2008 8:55a	And, I must add, if God is the type to tempt us just to see if we fail or succeed...what is the purpose of this? Are we just here for his amusement? He supposedly created us and our natures. So he gives us weak natures, puts temptation in our way...why? So that we learn and feel his love? So that we learn how much we need him and so we reach out for him? (Would you do this as a parent or pet owner? Test and tempt your loved ones so that they know how important you are?) Or maybe once we're dead and in Heaven we'll get to know his real reasons? Not buying it.

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