World Events
Topic: What is a Christian to you?

#	Author	Message
21	DAR Mon 4/28/2008 7:50a	Well if they're Muslim or Hindu or Buddist and follow that same path terrific. But you can't have a Christian without Christ. And yes that does sound like a bumper sticker.
22	EighthDwarf Mon 4/28/2008 8:11a	<<Like I said before you can tell me I am not a christian, but I will tell you I believe I am.>> I am not trying to tell you that you are not a Christian. I was merely trying to explain why evangelical Christians think LDS are not. <<LDS people believe Jesus Christ was our ultimate example and that we should do everything he did.>> I do believe this is a defining difference. Most non-LDS Christians do not believe they can literally become like Jesus Christ and aspire to the level of divinity the LDS folks hope to attain. I'm not saying this is wrong, just different. <<So to you a Christian is someone who only believes in Jesus Christ?>> To me, Christians believe that it is only through Jesus Christ that they can be saved. In my opinion, his message was pretty plain. I don't recall him saying you must believe in him AND all of the prophets that come after him AND follow all of the rules that they create. Also, isn't a fundamental belief of Christians that Jesus atoned for the sins of the world on the cross? LDS don't believe this, which is why you would never find a cross in a church, a temple or a home of any of its members. Again, I am not trying to say that you are not a Christian. But you have to admit there are some major differences between your version of Christianity and the rest of Christianity as it is practiced.
23	utahjosh Mon 4/28/2008 8:35a	<Also, isn't a fundamental belief of Christians that Jesus atoned for the sins of the world on the cross? LDS don't believe this, which is why you would never find a cross in a church, a temple or a home of any of its members.> LDS people DO believe this. We believe in the atonement of Jesus Christ - that suffering began in Gethsemane, and concluded with the suffering on the cross (we believe that that penalty - suffering for our sins - returned while He was on the cross, much more than just the physical pain of the cross. <But you have to admit there are some major differences between your version of Christianity and the rest of Christianity as it is practiced.> What LDS person has EVER said that there are no major differences? I've never said that. I've never heard it said. We celebrate the differences, the truths that we claim. We also celebrate and point out the similarities.
24	cmpaley Mon 4/28/2008 8:49a	>>Any someone who follows the Nicene creed an nicenien or something?<< The Nicene Creed is a creed that was written by some of the early Christians in order to deal with a controversy about the divinity of Christ. It is an expansion of the Apostles' Creed. It was originally written in Latin and it reads thus in English: "I believe in one God, the Father, the almight, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. "I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father, through Him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation, He came down from heaven. By the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary and became man. For our sake, He was crucified under Pontius Pilate. He suffered, died and was buried. On the third day, He rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and His kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son, He is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the prophets. I believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead and the life + of the world to come. Amen."
25	utahjosh Mon 4/28/2008 9:02a	I've read that creed many times. I don't believe a person has to subscribe to those specific interpretations of the Bible in order to be a Christian. Here, I'll adapt that creed to more fit my beliefs: "I believe in God the Father, Eternal, Omnipotent, all-knowing, and all-loving. "I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the literal son of God, begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, through Him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation, He came down from heaven. By the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary and became man. For our sake, He was crucified under Pontius Pilate. He suffered, died and was buried. On the third day, He rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and His kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son, He is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the prophets. I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."
26	Elderp Mon 4/28/2008 9:05a	"Also, isn't a fundamental belief of Christians that Jesus atoned for the sins of the world on the cross? LDS don't believe this, which is why you would never find a cross in a church, a temple or a home of any of its members." Your right we believe it was a two part process, he suffered first in the Garden of Gesthemane and then died on the cross at Golgatha. We don't have crosses in our church for two reasons. First, because we believe in not worshiping idols. Second, because we prefer to think of him strong and resurected, not weak and dead. "But you have to admit there are some major differences between your version of Christianity and the rest of Christianity as it is practiced. " I agree almost every Christian church has a different view on Jesus Christ. Name two churches that have the same view of Jesus Christ, you can't, they all have different "spins." Yet, they all call themselves Christians. I am not saying they are all right, but I will say if they believe they follow Jesus Christ they can call themselves Christians. "I don't recall him saying you must believe in him AND all of the prophets that come after him AND follow all of the rules that they create." He did, but he also said most people would ignore them. MAT 23:34 "Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: " Luke 24:25 "Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: " Like I said, to us Jesus Christ isn't dead, he is still alive. We believe he is still talking to us. The gospel doesn't change, but the circumstances do, think of how the world has changed since the bible. I think that is the fundamental difference between us and the most of Christianity. For most of Christianity the bible was it, for us we believe there is still more to learn. Doesn't in my view make me more or less of a Christian than anyone else, but in regards to revelation it is a BIG difference. In the Catholic church they don't have a prophet but they do have the doctorine of "Papal Infallability," which I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, states that the Pope when speaking on the behalf of the church is protected by the Holy Ghost from errors. I guess that is sort of like modern day revelation. As far as I know Evangelists don't believe in modern day revelation.
27	cmpaley Mon 4/28/2008 9:50a	>>I've read that creed many times. I don't believe a person has to subscribe to those specific interpretations of the Bible in order to be a Christian.<< Considering that the earliest form of the Nicene Creed was written before the Canon of the New Testament was finalized, it's not an interpretation of the Bible. It's an encapsulation of Apostolic Tradition as handed down by the Apostles to their successors. Credal statements like this come about as a result of a controversy. In this case, the controversy was about the Divinity of Christ...is Christ God or not? As we read in the creed, the Church teaches and has always taught that Christ is God become man. Later councils "flesh this out" more...the Council of Ephesus, for example, speaks of the "hypostatic union of Christ's humanity and divinity." This means that Christ is one person with two natures, human and divine. It is also where the term theotokos (Mother of God) was coined (if Christ is one person who is both God and Man, then Mary is the Mother of God).
28	alexbook Mon 4/28/2008 9:54a	To me, a Christian is someone who says they're a Christian. Simple. Done.
29	utahjosh Mon 4/28/2008 10:02a	Cmpaley, I'll say it differently: I don't believe that a person has to subscribe to the specific doctrines about Christ and God the Father in the Nicene Creed to be a Christian.
30	Dabob2 Mon 4/28/2008 10:13a	<I think a Christian is anyone who chooses to believe that Jesus Christ was divine. > I think that's right.

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