World Events
Topic: What is a Christian to you?

#	Author	Message
71	utahjosh Wed 4/30/2008 11:40a	Thanks. We disagree. You say my life isn't centered on Jesus Christ, I say it is. We'll have to agree to disagree.
72	EighthDwarf Wed 4/30/2008 11:43a	<<And guess what THERE ARE DIFFERENCES!!>> Yes, but the differences are quite extreme in the case of Momonism. Surely you can see that.
73	EighthDwarf Wed 4/30/2008 11:45a	<<You say my life isn't centered on Jesus Christ, I say it is.>> No, I'm saying it's not right that Mormons call themselves Christians -- not that you don't personally believe in Jesus Christ.
74	Elderp Wed 4/30/2008 8:24p	"(as far as we know) never said them." It isn't like any of were around when the Bible was written either. We believe in the Bible because we believe the people who wrote those words were inspired of God. Heck, the Bible means "book of books", and didn't see its current composite form until about 400 AD way after all the Apostles were gone.
75	Mr X Wed 4/30/2008 8:54p	***We believe EVERYONE deserves an opportunity to have a baptism, no matter where and when the lived or what they believed.*** What if such a thing were unwanted? Do you have the right to baptize a person by proxy into a faith they never intended to join?
76	cmpaley Wed 4/30/2008 9:35p	On the issue of holy baptism, the ordinary minister of Baptism is a priest ordained by a Bishop with Apostolic Succession (could be Catholic...could be Orthodox), but anyone can perform a valid baptism so long as there is the right matter (water), form (I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.) and intention (to baptize). On the issue of history, only two Churches can trace their history all the way back to Jesus and the Apostles. These are the Catholic Church, which includes all Eastern Catholics in union with the Pope, and all of the various Eastern Orthodox Churches. Before 1054, there was only ONE Catholic Church. Now, it's certainly understandable for a person, with little knowledge of Church history, to stumble across a King James Bible and determine that the Catholic Church can't POSSIBLY be the New Testament Church....why Catholics have all this pomp and circumstance and such. They believe in things like Jesus is actually present, in both His Humanity and Divinity, in the form of the bread and wine of Holy Communion (of course, they pass over John 6 and all the Last Supper narratives to do so). And they do things like tell their sins to a priest who forgives them those sins in God's name. Why, those things aren't in the King James Bible, are they? They must have apostacized or something! Not quite. Martin Luther had some VERY good points to make when he wrote his 95 Theses which sparked the Protestant Revolt, sorry, I mean Reformation. The problem was that he insisted that things be done the way he wanted them done and would not submit to those he swore to obey (he was, after all, a monk...one of the vows a monk makes is of obedience). I truly wish that Luther hadn't been so hard headed. There's so much blood that's been spilled and, I fear, so many souls lost, behind what could have been a period of great renewal in the Church. Today, there are more than 30,000 protestant denominations. Someone hears their pastor say something they don't like, they pick up and start their own church. The church secretary snips at you, so you leave and find another, more friendly church to join. On and on and on. But, St. John shows a different picture. What did Christ ask for in His High Priestly Prayer in Chapter 17, verse 11 of that same Holy Gospel? Ut Unum Sint..."that they may be one, even as We are one." This individualistic, Americanized "Christianity" is insanity, IMO. Just me and Jesus. Pish tosh. The Early Church valued community so much they were almost communistic (Acts 4:32-35). St. James tells us to "confess our sins one to another" (Jas 5:16). Jesus promised that the Apostles had the power to forgive sins (John 20:21-22). St. James also tells us to call upon the elders (presbyters...priests) if someone is sick so they can anoint the sick with oil and pray for them (side note: this does NOT exclude going to the doctor, OKAY!?) (Jas 5:14-15). Jesus tells us that if there is a dispute among Christians that we are to, ultimately, take it to the church (Matt 18:15-17), not get our our Bibles and have a war of Bible verses back and forth. Finally, Jesus promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church (Matt 15:18) and that it would be guided by the Holy Spirit into all truth (John 16:13). All of this implies one, authoritative and protected Church that is guided by the Holy Spirit. It's impossible for there to be 30,000+ "churches" when Jesus, who is God, wants all Christians to be one, unless us stubborn, prideful humans decide that we know better and we're going to do what we want because, well, God doesn't understand us as well as we do. Hogwash. Anyway, reading this thread has gotten my dander up and I really needed to vent about it. I sincerely believe that the Catholic faith is the one Jesus Christ left and that the Catholic Church, in spite of all her flawed people is the Church that Jesus founded. Now, I'm certain that this l'il post will be flamed for me being pompous or some such nonsense (when in fact, it's absolutely sincere), but I'm going to post it anyway because it contains what I really need to say.
77	Mr X Wed 4/30/2008 9:55p	***This individualistic, Americanized "Christianity" is insanity, IMO. Just me and Jesus.*** I agree, except I'd broaden that brush stroke and say that all these religions are insane. ***Hogwash.*** Exactly.
78	Mr X Wed 4/30/2008 9:58p	***All of this implies one, authoritative and protected Church that is guided by the Holy Spirit.*** I'd have to say that, given the horror show the catholic church has been and continues to be regarding matters of morals, the holy spirit must be a pretty crappy guide. See, that's where ya lost me. Anyway, aren't there more protestants than catholics these days? Or at least a comparable number? That sort of shoots holes in the "one true church" theory if you ask me.
79	cmpaley Wed 4/30/2008 10:07p	>>***All of this implies one, authoritative and protected Church that is guided by the Holy Spirit.*** I'd have to say that, given the horror show the catholic church has been and continues to be regarding matters of morals, the holy spirit must be a pretty crappy guide. See, that's where ya lost me.<< So, the actions of 1/10th of 1% of all clergy make the entire Catholic Church a putrid basin of filth? You have some damn high standards to live up to. >>Anyway, aren't there more protestants than catholics these days? Or at least a comparable number? That sort of shoots holes in the "one true church" theory if you ask me.<< Not at all. The Kingdom of God is not a democracy, it's a kingdom. Truth is not determined by a vote. Of course, Jesus didn't promise us ease and comfort in this life. He didn't say, "take up your down comforter and pillow and take a nap until I return," He said, "take up your CROSS daily and come follow me." Big difference. Most people want the comfort of eternal security and easy, nonoffensive theology. Hate to break it to ya, but Christ didn't mind offending people. Not that He went out of His way to do so, but He told the truth always...and He still does today, through His Church.
80	Mr X Wed 4/30/2008 10:48p	***So, the actions of 1/10th of 1% of all clergy make the entire Catholic Church a putrid basin of filth?*** No, but the actions of the hierarchy of the church certainly do. This is the way you always put it, and I ALWAYS repeat that it's not what some sicko priests did...it's what the leaders did to protect themselves that sickens me. Hey, so a priest goes out and murders someone. Does that make me think "the church is bad"? Certainly not. But if the church intentionally covered up the murder and protected the priest, then yes. The church is bad. I'm just sayin.

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