World Events
Topic: What is a Christian to you?

#	Author	Message
81	utahjosh Wed 4/30/2008 10:49p	***We believe EVERYONE deserves an opportunity to have a baptism, no matter where and when the lived or what they believed.*** <What if such a thing were unwanted? Do you have the right to baptize a person by proxy into a faith they never intended to join?> If it's unwanted, then they can ignore it. If it means nothing to them, who cares if someone said their name then dunked someone underwater. Does it cause any damage, any at all?
82	Mr X Wed 4/30/2008 10:50p	***Most people want the comfort of eternal security*** Yup. Rather crazy wouldn't you say? As the saying goes.."and people in hell want ice water". You can want it all you want, that doesn't make fairy tales come true.
83	Mr X Wed 4/30/2008 10:53p	***Does it cause any damage, any at all?*** To me personally? No. I couldn't care less...hey, if you guys are right I'm in...yay! ;) However, to a person with a deep seated faith in some other church or religion (take CMPaley for instance...hey CM, are you comfortable being baptised by proxy as a Mormon?)... Then yes, I'd say it's rather offensive to their faith and their memory. At least that's how it looks to me. I know if that were to be done to my Grandmas posthumously it would be highly offensive to them if they knew about it. Both devoted themselves to one faith and one faith only, and even felt uncomfortable setting foot in a different church for a service or a wedding (though respectfully, they did attend).
84	Mr X Wed 4/30/2008 10:57p	I don't mean to speak for CM here or call him out in particular (except perhaps as a guy who does seem very devoted to his church), I really have no idea how he'd feel about it. I do recall Jon mentioning that he found it offensive as a person of Jewish heritage.
85	utahjosh Wed 4/30/2008 11:05p	Mr X, so you know, we only baptize by proxy our own ancestors. Some passionate members of the church have gone after lists, famous people in history, etc, but that is discouraged. We respect people's wishes if they don't want us to use their ancestor's names.
86	utahjosh Wed 4/30/2008 11:11p	..that being said, we expect someday to allow every person who ever lived the the opportunity to either be baptized or accept a proxy baptism. But that day may be very very far distant.
87	Dabob2 Thu 5/1/2008 7:13a	<"that they may be one, even as We are one."> One can argue that in the larger (and more important) sense, all Christians are one, regardless of which denomination they belong to.
88	EighthDwarf Thu 5/1/2008 9:25a	<<Then yes, I'd say it's rather offensive to their faith and their memory.>> I think it's offensive when you take on the Christian name and then disavow everything Christians have done over the centuries but claiming it as being null and void. <<One can argue that in the larger (and more important) sense, all Christians are one, regardless of which denomination they belong to.>> Isn't that the idea behind the Catholic Church? Isn't catholic derived from the greek word for "universal"? I think the Catholic Church had every intention of being the lone Christian denomination - it's the other guys who had other ideas.
89	utahjosh Thu 5/1/2008 9:49a	<I think it's offensive when you take on the Christian name and then disavow everything Christians have done over the centuries but claiming it as being null and void.> Disavow EVERYTHING Christians have done? You are wrong. And I suppose anyone reading our back and forth converstations on the topic can see that you are incorrect, or at least a little deluded from bitterness or something. I'm LDS, and I celebrate many great things done by Christians since the time of Christ. I love the writings of CS Lewis and others, I love the Bible, and it's thanks to Christians that I have it and I'm able to read and study it. How is that disavowing EVERYTHING Christians have done? Sure, we do proclaim that many important things were lost from the true Christian church after the apostles died (Liken proper authority and key truths), but we are grateful for the things that stuck around. The LDS church has had an attitude of "Bring all the good you have, and see if we can add to it" for many, many years. Maybe you and I are the only people reading our back and forth discussion, and if so, then i'm pretty much done. Anyone else reading this? What do y'all think?
90	sun-n-fun Thu 5/1/2008 11:37a	I admit I haven't read through 89 posts, So maybe this was covered. I beleive a Christian not only believes in Jesus Christ but believes he died and rose again 3 days later. And that the purpose of this was to save all His believers so they could all go to heaven to be with God. Sincerely believing that this is true is what make one a Christian.

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