Walt Disney World General
Topic: Joe Rohde gets it!

#	Author	Message
31	Spirit of 74 Wed 5/14/2008 8:12p	Ultimately it is a balance - do I think <<Stitch's Great Escape! was a bust? Yup. But then two of the most talented folk at WDI were intimately involved - show writer Kevin Rafferty and WDI's technical genius Rick Rothschild. Sometimes it just doesn't work.>> My argument would be that SGE should never have been approved to begin with. The powers that be should be able to tell a turkey before tens of millions are spent. The MK would have been better keeping AE until they came up with a better concept. And as a Stitch lover, I'm saddened that the chance for a quality attraction with the character has also been lost ...
32	ArchtMig Wed 5/14/2008 10:07p	>>>The powers that be should be able to tell a turkey before tens of millions are spent.<<< The "powers that be" are not the creatives. They are the suits that don't know the difference between creativity/greatness and mediocrity/marketability. They hear "movie tie-in/Stitch", they think they see $$$$ signs, and that's all they need to pull the trigger on something like SGE.
33	mousermerf Thu 5/15/2008 1:34a	But the creatives had to come up with it for approval, no? A couple of things i want to comment on, starting with the concept art vs. finished product. Designers are not studio artists. Not to say they may not have the skills, creativity, ability, etc.. of a studio artists, but their job is not to do studio art but rather to create a finished product. Their art is that finished show, all the elements, coming together. Their art is not something rendered, painted, or drawn. Those are ways to express the ideas to people and to help formulate them. Great art is the designer's tool, not their trade. They have to be able to realize that concept, and in matters like DCA, know what limitations they have. We can sit around and blame budget all we want, but the ability to know what can be accomplished with a given amount of money is the designer's job - knowing how to do something justice. You don't attempt to do a broadway musical with a kazoo and a cowbell. Editing, knowing where to cut, knowing what's important, knowing how to do things cheaper, making cardboard and duct tape look good - all marks of a good designer. It's entirely possible to come up with something amazing on a kazoo and cowbell budget - most likely not a broadway musical. I think some people had to learn some very hard lessons. Hopefully they grew from it.
34	skinnerbox Thu 5/15/2008 1:31p	"I always get vexed when people ooze about certain personalities" ditto "there is a direct correlation between their exposure to the fan community and how they are perceived" Not always true. Braverman got plenty of exposure on the Travel Channel and is still hated. "Tony Baxter is a perfect example - always lauded for Big Thunder, Fantasyland '83 and Splash Mountain - but rarely called out for Tomorrowland '98 or DL's Pooh Ride." For the same reason Kevin Rafferty is never called out for Under New Management or AE Stitch. Pre-Pressler budgets were bigger. Much bigger. Everyone has produced turkeys since the Pressler WDA reign. Even Fitzgerald.
35	skinnerbox Thu 5/15/2008 1:35p	"It's entirely possible to come up with something amazing on a kazoo and cowbell budget - most likely not a broadway musical" Before middle management exploded, yes. No more. Those days of spit and bailing wire Imagineering are long gone.
36	Spirit of 74 Thu 5/15/2008 1:45p	<<We can sit around and blame budget all we want, but the ability to know what can be accomplished with a given amount of money is the designer's job - knowing how to do something justice. You don't attempt to do a broadway musical with a kazoo and a cowbell.>> Sorry, merf, but I disagree. If the powers tell you you're going to attempt a broadway musical with a kazoo and a cowbell, then if you value your job you do it. Maybe you raise a few concerns about the viability of the concept, but after those are shot down, you do the best you can given the parameters. Designers aren't miracle workers. If you need $35 million to make a project work, just to toss a figure out, and the accountaineers give you $15 million the project is going to suck. There's no two ways about it. <<Editing, knowing where to cut, knowing what's important, knowing how to do things cheaper, making cardboard and duct tape look good - all marks of a good designer. It's entirely possible to come up with something amazing on a kazoo and cowbell budget - most likely not a broadway musical. >> Agreed. BUT if Paul Pressler and Michael Eisner tell you 'we want a broadway musical' you do your best and hope you can put one over on the customers. We can all see from DCA's history that Disney guests aren't as stupid as management thought.
37	mousermerf Thu 5/15/2008 3:44p	I guess i'm making the wrong assumption that proposals have budgets attached which are either approved or not approved and management isn't quite dumb enough to think that if they axe part of the budget that they're not axing part of the proposal and thus it should be reevaluated after the cuts for viability within the constraints. In short, i believe it's X-money for Y-spot/purpose and they overshoot that goal, or they propose Y-purpose and get X-money allowance and don't kill the project if it needs to die at that point.

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