World Events
Topic: Bush sucks; worst president in history...

#	Author	Message
331	DyGDisney Mon 6/23/2008 9:01p	This bill also had other things tied to it, like a fence along the Mexican border to prevent people from entering the U.S. illegally. Oh, and this bill was pushed through by the President and his administration right before Congress took it's break, in an election year. This is a great statement by a Senator. http://www.talkleft.com/durbin...comm.pdf <<"Let's take one example. The bill would revise a law known as the War Crimes Act to give Bush administration officials and those who preceded them, back to 1997, amnesty, amnesty for authorizing illegal interrogation techniques. Think about this for a second. This administration wrote a memo. The author of that memo is a gentleman who is now before us as a potential nominee for the Federal court. In that memo it was recommended that we might use, as part of interrogation techniques, using dogs to threaten and intimidate prisoners. That was in the memo. Now, fast forward to Abu Ghraib and to those awful, horrific photographs we saw of the treatment of prisoners in that jail. You will recall, as I do, one of our soldiers holding on a leash a dog that was growling at one of the prisoners. That soldier is in jail today for using that dog and using that technique. The person who wrote the memo suggesting the use of dogs as an interrogation technique is not only facing no questioning, but the administration is proposing he be given a lifetime appointment to the second highest court in the land. Where is the justice, when soldiers who use these techniques, as wrong as they are, end up in prison, and those who write the memos suggesting these techniques not only are not held accountable, they are rewarded? And now we are presented with this bill, which says we will give amnesty to those who conceived of these interrogation techniques. Over 4 years ago, then-White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales recommended to the President that the Geneva Convention should not apply to the war on terrorism. In a January 2002 memo to the President, Mr. Gonzales concluded the war on terrorism "renders obsolete" the Geneva Conventions. Think of that. The Geneva Conventions, international agreements that have guided America for more than a century, were obsolete, we were told by the White House Counsel at that time, Mr. Gonzales.">>
332	DyGDisney Mon 6/23/2008 9:03p	<<"In his memo to President Bush, Mr. Gonzales specifically warned that administration officials could be prosecuted under the War Crimes Act if the President did not set aside the Geneva Conventions. He argued that a presidential determination that the Geneva Conventions do not apply would "substantially reduce the threat of domestic criminal prosecution under the War Crimes Act" and "would provide a solid defense to any future prosecution.">>
333	DouglasDubh Mon 6/23/2008 9:18p	Well, gee, if Sen Durbin said it, it must be true. Afterall, he's never one to engage in hyperbole to score political points. Oh wait, he is. As I've said a few times, if the bill said what you claim it said, it would have been filibustered, or defeated.
334	DyGDisney Mon 6/23/2008 9:18p	<<•HR 6166 EH ‘‘(g) GENEVA CONVENTIONS NOT ESTABLISHING SOURCE OF RIGHTS.-No alien unlawful enemy combatant subject to trial by military commission under this chapter may invoke the Geneva Conventions as a source of rights. 8 ‘‘ § 948c. Persons subject to military commissions ‘‘Any alien unlawful enemy combatant is subject to trial by military commission under this chapter.">>
335	DyGDisney Mon 6/23/2008 9:25p	<<"•HR 6166 EH (a) IN GENERAL.-No person may invoke the Geneva Conventions or any protocols thereto in any habeas corpus or other civil action or proceeding to which the United States, or a current or former officer, employee, member of the Armed Forces, or other agent of the United States is a party as a source of rights in any court of the United States or its States or territories. (b) GENEVA CONVENTIONS DEFINED.-In this section, the term ‘‘Geneva Conventions'' means- (1) the Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field, done at Geneva August 12, 1949 (6 UST 3114); (2) the Convention for the Amelioration of theCondition of the Wounded, Sick, and Shipwrecked Members of the Armed Forces at Sea, done at Geneva August 12, 1949 (6 UST 3217);83 (3) the Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, done at Geneva August 12, 1949(6 UST 3316); (4) the Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, done at Geneva August 12, 1949 (6 UST 3516).">>
336	DouglasDubh Mon 6/23/2008 9:26p	Yes. So?
337	DyGDisney Mon 6/23/2008 9:33p	<<•HR 6166 EH No court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider an application for a writ of habeas corpus filed by or on behalf of an alien detained by the United States who has been determined by the UnitedStates to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination.‘‘(2) Except as provided in paragraphs (2) and (3)of section 1005(e) of the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 (10 U.S.C. 801 note), no court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider any other action against the United States or its agents relating to any aspect of the detention, transfer, treatment, trial, or conditions of confinement of an alien who is or was detained by the United States and has been determined by the United States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination.''. >>
338	DyGDisney Mon 6/23/2008 9:34p	<<(b) EFFECTIVE DATE.-The amendment made by subsection (a) shall take effect on the date of the enactment of this Act, and shall apply to all cases, without exception, pending on or after the date of the enactment of this Act which relate to any aspect of the detention, transfer, treatment, trial, or conditions of detention of an aliendetained by the United States since September 11, 2001.">>
339	Kar2oonMan Mon 6/23/2008 11:58p	There was in the late 1990's<< Yes, when Bill Clinton was president. But it is interesting, this new attempt to blame just George Bush for the out of control spending. He gets his share of the blame, but in reality, the GOP controlled house and senate. So, there was nothing stopping them from controlling spending. They all chose not to, the GOP at large, not just the president. Once in control, they were no better at fiscal discipline. None.
340	DouglasDubh Tue 6/24/2008 6:14a	<They all chose not to, the GOP at large, not just the president.> They all tried to cooperate with the Democrats. <Once in control, they were no better at fiscal discipline. None.> See, I don't remember one thing on which the Democrats wanted to spend less money. Except, of course, national security. And national security, is, of course, the principal reason we have a federal government.

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