World Events
Topic: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned by CA Supreme Court

#	Author	Message
141	X-san Sat 5/17/2008 4:52p	***All they know is that they find gay hairy man-sex to be gross. They can't fathom, absolutely cannot fathom why a guy would be attracted or want to be intimate with another man.*** This is the part that always puzzles me about the people who are just totally repulsed by the very concept. I can understand the part about it being gross *for me*, something you wouldn't ever care to engage in etc...that makes perfect sense. But so many of the angry gay bashers say stuff just like this, and what I wonder is, if it's so unthinkable, how is it that they expect all WOMEN to be attracted to and want to be intimate with gross hairy dudes?
142	Darkbeer Sat 5/17/2008 6:02p	First off, lets talk about the Proposed Initiative, the Constitutional Amendment that would change the State Constitution. The original constitution for the State has a clause that allows the citizens to change the constitution by the Initiative process, so if the Initiative is passed, it would become part of the constitution. And it looks like it will be part of the November ballot. The signatures were submitted on April 24th, and the first round of signature verification needs to be finished by June 18th. Out of the original 1,120,590 signatures submitted, so far, the counties who have verified the random sample have found a 83% valid rate. That would give the initiative about 930,000 valid signatures, and they only have to have about 764,000 (110% of the needed amount of 694,354 valid signatures) to be placed on the November ballot. So it looks like it will be placed on the ballot, but we will know in a few weeks the final numbers. http://www.sos.ca.gov/election...1298.pdf The Initiative states... >> Section 1. Title This measure shall be known and may be cited as the "California Marriage Protection Act." Section 2. Article 1, Section 7.5 is added to the California Constitution, to Read: Sec. 7.5 Only Marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.<< And for those who want to see the entire Article 1 section of the California Constitution, here is a link. http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/.con...rticle_1 As you can see, many items have been changed, one of the more famous ones recently was the death penalty. The Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional due to cruel or unusual punishment. So it is clear that the California Supreme Court can make a ruling, and the people of the state can later amend the constitution to reverse the Court's ruling.
143	dshyates Sat 5/17/2008 6:03p	Well as far as "straights" dropping their guard around other "like minded " individuals. As a gay male who was in straight marriage for 18 years, I can tell you that in fact the gay bashing is quite prevalent. As any closeted gay male will tell you. And I also feel that under this conservative administration that the gay bashing has gotten worse. 5 years ago when I moved back to my hometown in southern WV there were 2 gay bars in town. Since then one was closed because of a zoning issue, even though the bar 6 buildings down the main street was grand fathered. and the other mysteriously burned down. Oddly enough the roof caught fire on a very busy Friday night. The cause was undetermined, but not considered suspicious. So my guess is the "Love the sinner, but hate the sin" christians, set the place on fire while full of the "sinners" they love so much. Fornunately no one was hurt, except the business owner who lost his business. He tried to reopen elsewhere but meet opposition at every turn. He gave up and moved out of Redneck Springs.
144	Darkbeer Sat 5/17/2008 6:28p	The second point is that ruling was very close, a 4-3 ruling. You can read the entire ruling here... http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/op...7999.PDF I recommend you BOTH the Majority and Minority rulings. The Minority Ruling starts on page 128 First some comments by Justice Marvin Baxter... >>So far, Congress, and virtually every court to consider the issue, has rejected it. Nothing in our Constitution, express on implicit, compels the majority's startling conclusion the the age-old understanding of marriage - an understanding recently confirmed by an initiative law - is no longer valid.<< >>The majority forecloses this ordinary democratic process, and, in doing so, oversteps its authority.<< >>I cannot join this exercise in legal jujitsu, by which the Legislature's own weight is used against it to create a constitutional right from whole cloth, defeat the people's will, and invalidate a statue otherwise immune from legislative interference. Thought the majority insists otherwise, its pronouncement seriously oversteps the judicial power.<< There is a lot more in the ruling, and I suggest you click on the link....
145	Elderp Sat 5/17/2008 7:24p	"and what I wonder is, if it's so unthinkable, how is it that they expect all WOMEN to be attracted to and want to be intimate with gross hairy dudes? " I have no clue why women are attracted to men either but I am sure glad they are!
146	X-san Sat 5/17/2008 8:06p	lol.
147	SingleParkPassholder Sat 5/17/2008 10:40p	"So it is clear that the California Supreme Court can make a ruling, and the people of the state can later amend the constitution to reverse the Court's ruling." What's clear is that Darkbeer doesn't approve of gay marriage. Why is that, Darkbeer? What's also clear is that he does not understand some basic concepts. Yes, California citizens can change the state Constitution. This case can't be appealed because the ruling was based on the state's Constitution. Hence the initiative. One, if the initiative passes, and shame on the voters if it does, then it automatically becomes void if the U.S. Supreme Court finds marriage is a fundamental right that can't be denied to gays. States cannot restrict rights granted under the Federal Constitution, and a ban would be exactly that, a restriction. Keep in mind this decision was made by judges who were appointed by Republicans. Six of the seven, to be exact. When these case do make it to a Supreme Court, bans are getting overturned. It is inevitable that it will eventually become the law of the land.
148	Elderp Sun 5/18/2008 6:50a	"States cannot restrict rights granted under the Federal Constitution, and a ban would be exactly that, a restriction. " The USSC has already ruled that marriage is not a federal right, its a state right and therefore has to be decided among each state.
149	SingleParkPassholder Sun 5/18/2008 7:33a	"The USSC has already ruled that marriage is not a federal right, its a state right and therefore has to be decided among each state." When? Loving v. Virgina says otherwise. "Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discrimination. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State."
150	Darkbeer Sun 5/18/2008 8:11a	SPP, Please STOP "reading my mind" and claiming things I have never said... I have had the same stance on the Marriage issue for years, and have placed those thoughts here at LP over the last few years. Let me be lazy, and quote myself from last Friday over at MiceChat... http://micechat.com/forums/sho...9p3.html >>Marriage is more than just a ceremony, it is used by the Government to deal with taxation and other issues. IMHO, the government should get out of anything to do with Marriage, and leave it to Religious or other types of groups to run and issue marriage certificates. The government should revamp the tax laws, and give breaks to those raising families, but everyone else should file a separate tax return. If they have one person not working and taking care of the household, and not earning income, then a tax break should be given. But no "special" break for just being married. If you want to deal with things like hospitals and wills, then file the paperwork needed to allow the other person to take care of those legal matters. This will allow churches to make a decision, they can decide to allow same sex marriages, or decide not to, depending on their beliefs. And here is something else I have a problem with... http://ocresort.freedombloggin...age-ban/ Excuse me, what about Equal Rights, we have rules such as dry cleaners having to charge the same rates to both genders, why shouldn't the discount be given to the first 50 couples who book a wedding, regardless of the gender of the 2 people getting married.<< My problems with this decision pretty much match up with Justice Baxter's opinion. Activist Judges....

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