World Events
Topic: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned by CA Supreme Court

#	Author	Message
331	Dabob2 Wed 5/28/2008 9:02a	<<Because we can't tell from looking at them if they're post-menopausal. Really, that was his answer.>> <No, that's a characture of my answer.> I wish I could find that old thread. I don't like to throw the "l" word out casually, but here you're simply lying (or more charitably, misremembering). Because that's exactly what you said. <he truth is that, until recently society couldn't know which couples were infertile, and why. > You said that before. I then asked "what about a woman in her 60's or older. We know for sure she won't be having any more kids." And you said that we couldn't tell just by looking. At any rate, post-menopausal women are not prohibited from marrying because of non-procreation. Nor should they be. Nor should gay people be.
332	Dabob2 Wed 5/28/2008 9:03a	<In fact he specifically refuted the charges of Spedale and other critics in one of the essays.> Very weakly. But weak minds will lap it up.
333	X-san Wed 5/28/2008 9:08a	The "study" in question is idiotic on the face of it, as Dabob points out. The fact that people like Douglas take stock in it is not surprising though. Prejudiced people will look towards any friendly source of "confirmation" (god, anyone?) to prove that their hateful views are justified. The incredibly stupid angle of "it's bad for the human race because we need to procreate", in this day and age of overpopulation and mass starvation, adds all the more idiocy to the argument (much the same as the catholic church, in their perpetual demonization of birth-control, proves their antiquated and frankly immoral line of reasoning if given even the slightest once over).
334	X-san Wed 5/28/2008 9:12a	***the truth is that, until recently society couldn't know which couples were infertile, and why.*** Douglas, the truth is TODAY we can tell quite readily who is fertile and who is not. Given that fact, would you be in favor of fertility testing as a prerequisite to obtaining a marriage license? If not, please explain? That would obviously be an important thing to do, given your stated viewpoints here. No?
335	Dabob2 Wed 5/28/2008 9:13a	Meanwhile, as SPP noted, the case in Massachusetts (certainly a better indication of how the rest of US society might go) shows none of Kurtz's predicted effects.
336	Dabob2 Wed 5/28/2008 9:27a	And in fact, I just spent some time re-reading the Kurtz stuff, and the more you read it, the LESS credible it becomes. Take the Netherlands' out of wedlock birth rate. He chalks it up to gay marriage, of course, as a causative factor. Classic logical fallacy, but wait, it gets better. He says the change in legal status for co-habiting straights can't be it, because it's "too small" a number, even though the number of gay marriages is also small. And then he ignores the fact that out-of-wedlock births have increased steadily in the Netherlands since 1995, before EITHER the change in legal status for co-habiting straights OR gay marriage went into effect. Yet, from that, he chalks it up to gay marriage. And some people buy it.
337	X-san Wed 5/28/2008 9:32a	DaBob, there is no logic to prejudice. Look at the Mormons trying to justify their own cults' beliefs in the inferiority of black people for over a century. They're baffled, and yet STILL attempt to apply some sort of logic to it. Let the haters be hateful. The smart ones will figure it out for themselves someday. The dumb ones will rot in their ignorance. It's sad, but there's nothing anyone can do about it...they are haters by choice.
338	utahjosh Wed 5/28/2008 9:44a	Not being able to hold the priesthood does NOT equal being inferior. Even if it happened again today. Did the Levites think themselves superior to the tribe of Judah? Only the Levites could hold the priesthood way back then. There is no hate with me. I've said before that I don't know the reasons for the black/priesthood past, and I suspect the culture of racism that existed in the 1800s probably contributed to the situation. I simply do not know.
339	X-san Wed 5/28/2008 9:49a	***I suspect the culture of racism that existed in the 1800s probably contributed to the situation*** Of COURSE it did, Josh! ***I simply do not know.*** Yes you DO, Josh. YES YOU DO. ***There is no hate with me.*** I believe you on this one. You're a good guy. So aren't a lot of others on LP (including Elder and the lovely Mrs Elder and SO many others!). I just hate people trying to justify hate. There really is no justification. It is what it is. It would be so much nicer, and more understandable, if people were to say "yeah, well my church got into that because that's how American society was at the time and then people got a clue", rather than trying to BLAME GOD for simple human hatred. Just the idea of that is pretty sickening to me. Isn't it to you?
340	X-san Wed 5/28/2008 9:50a	By the way, Josh...congrats and mazeltoff and all that!! On your WEDDING!!!!! How was Hawaii????????

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