World Events
Topic: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned by CA Supreme Court

#	Author	Message
381	Elderp Thu 5/29/2008 4:48p	^ That is the way it is in Argentina, Mexico, and Chile. This is due mostly to the fact that the government in these countries have Catholothism as the official state religion. "I think it's kinda lame that it has to be this way, but it seems like the only really fair thing to do." I would like to have only temple marriages exist in the world, but that isn't going to happen.
382	Kar2oonMan Thu 5/29/2008 4:56p	>>"Which best represents your views about what state laws should be regarding same-sex relationships?" 45% allow to marry, 32% allow civil unions, 19% no legal recognition<< The times, they are a-changin'. 20 years from now, the squabbling over this will seem baffling to people. What's going to happen when all the doom and gloom and social upheaval predicted by gay marriage opponents doesn't come to pass? They'll move on to some other target, I guess...
383	WilliamK99 Fri 5/30/2008 1:41a	What's going to happen when all the doom and gloom and social upheaval predicted by gay marriage opponents doesn't come to pass? They'll move on to some other target, I guess...<< I am guessing scarf wearing Muslim Extremists like Rachel Ray
384	X-san Fri 5/30/2008 2:29a	lol.
385	Kar2oonMan Fri 5/30/2008 6:32a	LOL!
386	Dabob2 Fri 5/30/2008 7:53a	<<"What about the non-religious? How do they get married? ">> < If your not religious then why do you care?> It meant something to me to be married in our church, but that was just me. Other people are different. A co-worker's son got married a couple of years ago, civil ceremony. It was still very meaningful for them to gather in front of all their friends and family and say "this is the person I commit to, and will love an honor for the rest of my life." There was just no church involved, as they're not religious. That doesn't mean it wasn't meaningful for them. <Marriage in the civil arena has proven not to mean much. > People have always been able to marry at the court house in this country. That's always meant everything it needs to mean to those couples who got married there. And in fact, if you don't have a valid marriage license issued by the state, most churches won't perform the ceremony, and if they do it's not considered a valid marriage by the state.
387	mele Fri 5/30/2008 10:55a	<<<Marriage in the civil arena has proven not to mean much. >>> Legally, it means quite a bit. There's a lot at stake when the union is "legal". Personally, I think the arguing over what to call their legal unions is waste-of-time semantics. No one is going to stop saying "I'm getting married!" just because they aren't having a church ceremony. "Married" is a phrase that people use. I think the state should still issue licenses and let the same people perform ceremonies who perform them now. Just allow gay couples to get the license, too. All of this other stuff about unions vs. marriage, church vs. public officiant is just blah, blah, blah. Things don't need to get that complicated. Heterosexuals can't force any church official to marry them now, so why would anything be any different? I think maybe gays have a better chance of gaining acceptance by being satisfied with the term "civil union" for now. Yes, I understand it's "separate but equal" but once unions are formed and people see that the sky isn't falling and civilization hasn't collapsed, later amend the wording to be "marriage". The all or nothing approach won't win any points AND it won't allow gays to marry. At least with the civil unions, they can be legally joined. They can call it whatever they want...the bond people make, both spiritually and legally is still just as strong.
388	Dabob2 Fri 5/30/2008 12:26p	< I think the state should still issue licenses and let the same people perform ceremonies who perform them now. Just allow gay couples to get the license, too.> Bingo. <I think maybe gays have a better chance of gaining acceptance by being satisfied with the term "civil union" for now. Yes, I understand it's "separate but equal" but once unions are formed and people see that the sky isn't falling and civilization hasn't collapsed, later amend the wording to be "marriage". > I go back and forth on this one. Ultimately it needs to be marriage equality, but what's the better way to get there? I go back and forth. Some people do have a really proprietary attitude towards the "M" word.
389	Elderp Fri 5/30/2008 3:34p	"I think the state should still issue licenses and let the same people perform ceremonies who perform them now." So are we saying a marriage license is the right to perform the ceremony? Why do we need a license for that? I know it is in the state constitution that you must have a ceremony (it is look it up), but it isn't like there is any conformity to this requirement. If your belief system supports the notion you could nod to your spouse and that could be argued to be a "ceremony." It is clear to me that the reason we have to get a license is due to the contractual agreement that is involved with a marriage (ie. medical rights, taxes, etc.). The problem again here to me is that I think there are other legal venues for those rights. "Some people do have a really proprietary attitude towards the "M" word." I have to agree with you here. I know I have a very specific belief of what a marriage is and for the most part it isn't shared with most other people. To me a marriage is a religious requirement. Before I was a member of my current faith I didn't really even believe in marriage. I was more than happy to just go out on dates and have non-binding relationships. Through my study of the gospel however, granted I am now entailing my beliefs, I believe that relationships should be binding (eternally binding). I further believe that my relationship should be santified in the proper place, by the proper authority, and with the proper person. This however is all what I believe marriage to be. I know many people who don't share that view (they should, but they don't ;)). Some people I have heard believe that marriage is a very open thing, kind of a "we are in the same general area together" thing. Who is to say who is right. You ask me, and I am going to tell you I am right, but I am sure there are many out there ready to dispute me.
390	Dabob2 Fri 5/30/2008 3:56p	Well, just between various religions, obviously, there are different views of what marriage is (with the Mormon view of "eternal marriage" being an obvious example. So if we live in a multi-religious society, we cannot rely on religion to define marriage for us as a whole. As far as the state is concerned, if we are going to consider a marriage something in and of itself, and the relationship distinct from two separate people, then the state must (and always has, in this country) grant the license. In my case, we are married in the eyes of our church, but not (yet) in the eyes of our state. I look forward to the day when their eyes shall meet (or some other clumsy romantic metaphor...)

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