World Events
Topic: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned by CA Supreme Court

#	Author	Message
421	DouglasDubh Thu 6/5/2008 6:39a	<Douglas, what is your opinion about homosexuals?> That they are people, for better or worse, who deserve to be treated with respect. I would never deny a homosexual a place to live, a job, or friendship. The fact that a person is a homosexual doesn't raise or lower my opinion of them. <What do you think about homosexuality in general?> I think we would be in trouble if it was too widely adopted, and I wouldn't like to see it too openly displayed in front of young children, but other than that, people are what they are. I don't think homosexuality should be outlawed, or discrete displays of it banned.
422	X-san Thu 6/5/2008 6:53a	***I don't think homosexuality should be outlawed, or discrete displays of it banned.*** How about overt displays? Should that be banned?
423	X-san Thu 6/5/2008 6:54a	Before going there, "overt displays" meaning the same sort of "overt displays" of heterosexuality you might see in public.
424	X-san Thu 6/5/2008 7:10a	***I wouldn't like to see it too openly displayed in front of young children*** Yeah, like something slightly disgusting and distasteful that you might tolerate, but only just. Right? (since you didn't answer right away, I thought I'd help)
425	Kar2oonMan Thu 6/5/2008 7:20a	>>I wouldn't like to see it too openly displayed in front of young children<< Define "too openly displayed".
426	Kar2oonMan Thu 6/5/2008 7:25a	Once upon a time, interracial couples had to keep their relationships on the down-low, not too "openly displayed" lest young children start to see such relationships as "normal" or something. It wasn't equal, it was plainly unfair, but "it was in the best interest of the children." It's nothing new to use "what's in the best interest of the children" to support bigotry. The funny thing is, to a majority of people under 30, this is really a non-issue. That's why you see the anti-gay marrage groups trying to act fast to alter the constitution -- they know time (and history) is not on their side.
427	X-san Thu 6/5/2008 7:32a	***Define "too openly displayed".*** Yup, K2M, that was exactly my question. Though I appreciate Doug answering honestly, I would really like to hear the follow up answers as well. There are an AMAZING number of caveats in his reply when you stop and look at it carefully... "for better or worse" "I would never deny" "I think we would be in trouble" "I wouldn't like to see it openly displayed" I won't even try to paraphrase the rest, it's WAY too prejudiced and I don't even want to copy/paste the filth.
428	Dabob2 Thu 6/5/2008 8:25a	<<I didn't get the facts wrong.>> <Yes, you did.> Well, no I didn't, and you haven't been able to show I did. You just asserted I did, and as usual, confuse the two. <<Man up, for once.>> <I've stated what I believe. If you want to go ahead and continue to distort it, I can't stop you.> You were taken to task for those statements (i.e. we don't disallow post-menopausal women from marrying because we can't tell by looking if they're post-menopausal) by more people here than just me. If you want to try to deny you ever said it I can't stop you, but many of us here know better. <<He shows declining rates of marriage in Holland. Then he says that because gay marriage happened at the same time, it was a contributing factor.>> <Not quite. He goes through all the possible factors, and explains why they are not contributing factors. That's the way you show cause.> That fails Freshman Logic. What he does is offer his OPINION why factor a or b is "not a cause." That's not proof, that's opinion. Once again, you can't seem to tell the difference. He dismisses the change in legal status of non-married heterosexuals, for instance, but it's just his OPINION that it is less important than the institution of gay marriage. He has no proof. Just an opinion. But you want to believe his conclusion, so you eat it up with a spoon. <<For me, proof is required of something negative if we're going to deny equal protection under the law.>> <I think proof of something positive should be required if we're going to redefine marriage, but I'm willing to settle for evidence that no harm will be done.> That's what people said about interracial marriage too, of course. And the thing is, there was something positive - the principle of equality itself. That wasn't enough for millions of people for dozens of years, but it was always there. It's there in the case of gay marriage as well. <So far, I haven't seen it.> You're not looking at Massachusetts. <<I can present evidence to the contrary - no negative effects in Massachusetts>> <Please do.> Um, I did. There have been no negative effects in Massachusetts. They're I believe 49th in divorce rate. Way down the scale on out of wedlock births too. Meanwhile, we have the positive effect of thousands of gay citizens being treated as equals. Can you show any negative effects?
429	Kar2oonMan Thu 6/5/2008 8:34a	>>Can you show any negative effects?<< Yes! It has a terrible effect on anti-gay marriage rhetoric and ghost stories!!!!
430	Daannzzz Thu 6/5/2008 9:53a	""I think we would be in trouble if it was too widely adopted"" Is this a bad choice of words or is its intent clear.

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