World Events
Topic: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned by CA Supreme Court

#	Author	Message
451	DouglasDubh Fri 6/6/2008 7:03a	<Well, no I didn't, and you haven't been able to show I did.> Anybody taking the time to actually read the article will see that you did. And I'm not the one confusing things. <What he does is offer his OPINION why factor a or b is "not a cause." That's not proof, that's opinion. Once again, you can't seem to tell the difference.> When did I ever say it was proof? It's you that keeps conflating proof and opinion. <Um, I did. There have been no negative effects in Massachusetts.> Then present the numbers. Show me the numbers of out of wedlock births in the years before it was mandated, and the ones after. Show me the marriage rate in the years before, and the ones since. Saying that Massachusetts has a low rate compared to the nation is useless; we need to see if or how it's changed. You can't show it hasn't had a negative effect just as I can't show it has; we don't have the numbers. Until we do, it's useless to point to it for anything.
452	X-san Fri 6/6/2008 7:17a	***I think for now most people are going to have a little more tolerance for heterosexual displays than homosexual displays.*** Of course. That would be the definition of "intolerance", wouldn't it Doug?
453	DouglasDubh Fri 6/6/2008 7:28a	No, not really. I'm sorry that some people don't want to have to explain homosexuality to their young children, and that I understand and sympathize for those people. But that's the way it is and that's not intolerance.
454	Kar2oonMan Fri 6/6/2008 7:30a	>>Show me the numbers of out of wedlock births<< But Doug, that would be heterosexual activity, and largely teenagers. Unless the thought of gay marriage is some extra turn-on for sexually activity teenagers, one doesn't have anything to do with the other. That's what you seem to be missing. This idea that straight couples are suddenly going to say, "Well, gays are marrying now, so now marriage is ruined. Let's just forget it and just live together." is ludicrous. If that's even happening (which I strongly doubt) it's would be such an extraordinarily low number of people that think that way it wouldn't be statistically significant. It just doesn't make any kind of sense. All that said, people ought to be getting married because they intend to love, honor and cherish their mate. If the only reason someone is getting married is because it's a reinforcement that heterosexual relationships matter, that's a pretty weak basis upon which to build a marriage. I married my wife because we loved each other and I wanted to spend my life with her, grow old together. Nearly 26 years later, those feelings have only grown stronger. Bob and Steve getting married isn't going to change that. Even if marriage goes out of fashion (and the rates always fluctuate) it doesn't affect me. You're looking for reasons that we shouldn't allow gay marriage. Try looking at all the reasons why we should instead.
455	Kar2oonMan Fri 6/6/2008 7:33a	26? Uh.... do i ever need an edit feature now... We have been together for 28 years, married for nearly 23.
456	Kar2oonMan Fri 6/6/2008 7:37a	>>I'm sorry that some people don't want to have to explain homosexuality to their young children<< So am I, because that makes it all a bigger deal than it really is. It is part of life. I think most children would understand, to the level they can, that two boys or two girls love each other. It doesn't have to be "The Talk." I agree that there are public displays that are not appropriate for children. There are things in prde parades that go way too far, just like in Mardi Gras or spring break festivities.
457	DouglasDubh Fri 6/6/2008 8:05a	<This idea that straight couples are suddenly going to say, "Well, gays are marrying now, so now marriage is ruined. Let's just forget it and just live together." is ludicrous.> And yet, that is what seems to be happening. Marriage is evolving from a special relationship between a man and a woman where the pledge themselves to each other forever and the foundation of a family to a legal thing two people who want to live together do in order to get benefits. <It just doesn't make any kind of sense.> I don't think you want it to make sense, so it doesn't. <I think most children would understand, to the level they can, that two boys or two girls love each other.> I agree. But because I understand that some people do not doesn't make me an agent of intolerance. There is a double standard in this world, and people can't wish it away overnight, and I'm not sure society is best served by getting rid of it.
458	Kar2oonMan Fri 6/6/2008 8:19a	>>And yet, that is what seems to be happening.<< "Seems to" is an important qualifyer there, isn't it? Correlation is not causation. >>There is a double standard in this world, and people can't wish it away overnight, and I'm not sure society is best served by getting rid of it<< Double standards = discrimination. People were sure interracial marriage would be the undoing of us, and it didn't happen. Such concerns seem really, really silly in retrospect, don't they? >>arriage is evolving from a special relationship between a man and a woman where the pledge themselves to each other forever and the foundation of a family to a legal thing two people who want to live together do in order to get benefits. << No, it isn't. The legal argument is about benefits and such, but it still will be a special relationship between two adults who pledge themselves to each other forever and the foundation of a family. IF we can open our eyes and hearts and minds to that, and quit trying to bar it from happening.
459	DouglasDubh Fri 6/6/2008 8:33a	<People were sure interracial marriage would be the undoing of us, and it didn't happen. Such concerns seem really, really silly in retrospect, don't they?> The two situations aren't similar, so it's impossible to draw parallels. As to the rest of your post, you're not saying anything new, so there's no point in my repeating anything.
460	utahjosh Fri 6/6/2008 8:45a	I also agree that the parallels between gay marriages and interracial marriages are not as strong as advocates feel. They are not the same.

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