World Events
Topic: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned by CA Supreme Court

#	Author	Message
461	Kar2oonMan Fri 6/6/2008 8:48a	>>The two situations aren't similar, so it's impossible to draw parallels.<< They're not similar -- they're practically identical. Every objection you raise is a slight variant of the objections raised against interracial marriage. I realize this causes you discomfort, because I don't think you truly, in your heart, want to be bigoted. But it isn't impossible at all to see the similarities. Both types of relationships challenge the "traditional", both were said to be bad for children, both faced legal challenges, both slowly gained in acceptance after initially being "unpopular." And a younger generation made the difference. The same thing will happen with gay marriage, as it should.
462	ecdc Fri 6/6/2008 9:03a	>>I also agree that the parallels between gay marriages and interracial marriages are not as strong as advocates feel. They are not the same.<< Why? What are the differences? >>But it isn't impossible at all to see the similarities. Both types of relationships challenge the "traditional", both were said to be bad for children, both faced legal challenges, both slowly gained in acceptance after initially being "unpopular." And a younger generation made the difference. The same thing will happen with gay marriage, as it should.<< And both used religion, the Bible, and God to justify their bigotry. "I'm not a racist, I'm just doing what God wants."
463	DAR Fri 6/6/2008 9:24a	<<But it isn't impossible at all to see the similarities. Both types of relationships challenge the "traditional", both were said to be bad for children, both faced legal challenges, both slowly gained in acceptance after initially being "unpopular." And a younger generation made the difference. The same thing will happen with gay marriage, as it should.>> And then the people who really love animals will start. ;)
464	ecdc Fri 6/6/2008 9:26a	^^^^LOL!
465	mele Fri 6/6/2008 9:27a	I find it interesting that I should be expected to live my life differently because other people don't want to explain my "lifestyle" to their kids. Grow up. Teach your kids that there are other people in the world. Hell, even take the time to tell them why you believe homosexuality is wrong but don't expect me to live up to your expectations for my own life. (Of course, like everyone else, overt displays of sexual behavior are gross and inappropriate but most of the time, simple hand-holding or small kisses are just as upsetting to these people.) I should be able to show affection for the people I love. If you can't deal with people who aren't exactly like you, maybe you should just stay home. I'm sure as hell not going to hide out at home because you don't like looking at me. Your views are YOUR problem, not MINE. I'm supposed to volunteer to defer to your wishes, to bow to what makes you "comfortable"...yet there is no reciprocation there. You automatically assume that your comfort is far more important than mine and I should be happy to bow to it. If you leave your house, you're going to meet people from different walks of life. It's up to you to learn from it or run away from it but you have no right to try to make ME hide out from it or stop it from happening at all. Some of the very same people who whine about gays kissing each other in public are the same people who cry about how their religion (key words: THEIR religion-they'd be outraged if it was another religion) is being forced from the "public square" (whatever that means.) They are often also in favor of prayer in schools and seem to be perfectly fine with their views being shoved on everyone else, they sometimes even expect people to participate, but I can't hug or kiss my (hypothetical) girlfriend because somehow it infringes on THEIR lives somehow? Poor them, they have to discuss things with their children. Sad that "discussing" things with their children is such a rare event that it causes them pain. Oy.
466	ecdc Fri 6/6/2008 9:32a	Post 465 - spot on. And full of the logic and reasoning that opponents simply lack on this topic. There's no way to be logical or reasonable about bigotry.
467	DAR Fri 6/6/2008 9:37a	<<There's no way to be logical or reasonable about bigotry.>> Which also applies to religious bigotry.
468	DAR Fri 6/6/2008 9:42a	<<Poor them, they have to discuss things with their children. Sad that "discussing" things with their children is such a rare event that it causes them pain. Oy.>> I don't think it's sad that parents have to discuss things with their children, well it depends on what your discussing. I'll always be in favor of just letting kids be kids, discuss the adult stuff later.
469	Kar2oonMan Fri 6/6/2008 9:52a	Post 465: Exactamundo.
470	Dabob2 Fri 6/6/2008 10:06a	<<Well, no I didn't, and you haven't been able to show I did.>> <Anybody taking the time to actually read the article will see that you did. And I'm not the one confusing things.> Funny. There are a lot of "anyones" here saying it's you who's confusing things, and no "anyones" yet saying it was me. <<What he does is offer his OPINION why factor a or b is "not a cause." That's not proof, that's opinion. Once again, you can't seem to tell the difference.>> <When did I ever say it was proof? It's you that keeps conflating proof and opinion.> Oh please. You said (about Kurtz): "That's how you show cause." Meaning that Kurtz supposedly "showed cause." You can get all semantic again (and probably will), but when you say someone "showed cause," that's a lot closer to saying he "proved" something than "he gave his opinion." <<Um, I did. There have been no negative effects in Massachusetts.>> <Then present the numbers.> Glad to. Golly, sometimes you make it so easy. <Show me the numbers of out of wedlock births in the years before it was mandated, and the ones after. Show me the marriage rate in the years before, and the ones since. Saying that Massachusetts has a low rate compared to the nation is useless; we need to see if or how it's changed. You can't show it hasn't had a negative effect just as I can't show it has;> Oh, but I can. As usual, that's the difference between us. <we don't have the numbers. Until we do, it's useless to point to it for anything.> I couldn't find the out of wedlock birth rates, but... http://www.beaconbroadside.com...the.html "In 2004 the Massachusetts divorce rate, at 2.2 per 1,000 residents per year, was considerably lower than the US national average rate for that year, 3.8 per 1,000. Indeed, it was lower than the national average rate for 1950 (2.6 per 1,000) and even approached the national rate of 1940 (2 per 1,000). In 2003, total divorces in Massachusetts declined 2.1% relative to 2002. But in the first two years of legal same sex marriage in the Bay State, Massachusetts showed a more rapid decline and will very likely hold on to its title as the US state with the lowest divorce rate in the nation. The field is hotly contested -- divorce rates have fallen dramatically in the last few decades. The institution of marriage in Massachusetts, as measured by the rate of divorce, has not been healthier in at least half a century regardless of dire predictions of Christian Right leaders and Catholic Bishops. But the states that have taken aggressive action against same sex marriage, have not done nearly as well during the two year period of legal same sex marriage in Massachusetts."

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