| # | Author | Message |
501
| Dabob2
Wed 6/11/2008 12:18p | <And if people want to believe that gay marriage is no threat to traditional heterosexual marriage, well, they'll just go on and believe it.>
I believe it because I live it.
Equality is coming, josh. Sorry. |
502
| utahjosh
Wed 6/11/2008 12:27p | Whether I like it or not, I don't doubt that gay marriage will soon be legal across the country. And the freedom-loving part of me is happy that people get to do whatever they want, in a way.
But my strong religious beliefs will never advocate those things. |
503
| Dabob2
Wed 6/11/2008 12:29p | Okay. Hindus don't believe in eating meat. But they don't insist ALL of us become vegetarians. |
504
| DAR
Wed 6/11/2008 12:57p | If I can play devil's advocate here.
There's been comparisons that gay marriage is on par with rights of women or African Americans in this country. Which for the latter I can't say the struggle has been as great. But won't some people make the argument(not mine) that you are born black or a woman and can't really control that. But you're not born homosexual(which I don't believe) and therefore this is just a choice that individual is making?
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505
| utahjosh
Wed 6/11/2008 1:05p | <But you're not born homosexual>
Most people will disagree with you there. Even I believe some people are born with a tendency toward homosexuality. |
506
| ecdc
Wed 6/11/2008 1:32p | >>We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.<<
So Josh, what did you think about the polygamy prosecution during the 19th century? Do you think it was ok for the federal government to arrest Lorenzo Snow and George Q. Cannon and imprison them for bigamy? Do you agree with the Edmunds-Tucker Act that seized Mormon property and ultimately caused Woodruff to issue the Manifesto bringing an end to polygamy?
>>I believe that "this bit" is not a threat of man, but a revelation and warning given by God through prophets of God.<<
The Mormon Proclamation on the Family is the perfect example of how religious writings turn "revelatory" in the face of no evidence.
The Proclamation was issued by Mormon leaders in the context of the California gay marriage debate. No one ever claimed to have a revelation for it, it was not written in previous revelatory "thus saith the lord" language. It was a political document designed to rally California Mormons against the proposition at the time (I forget which one). But give it even a few years and Mormons are calling it a "revelation" from God. But yet again we see what "revelation" is like. There's nothing revealing in the document at all. It's merely a reiteration of previous Mormon teachings. |
507
| SingleParkPassholder
Wed 6/11/2008 1:43p | "If I can play devil's advocate here.
There's been comparisons that gay marriage is on par with rights of women or African Americans in this country. Which for the latter I can't say the struggle has been as great. But won't some people make the argument(not mine) that you are born black or a woman and can't really control that. But you're not born homosexual(which I don't believe) and therefore this is just a choice that individual is making?"
I know you're not arguing this yourself, but just presenting it. This attitude is the mindset of the truly ignorant. It's wrong on so many levels. Why anyone would "choose" this orientation, and subsequently subject themselves to a life of difficulty, inequality, bigotry, hatred and ridicule defies any type of sane, rational thought. It also implies that the hetero who believes this could easily have "chosen" to be gay themselves.
Of course, though, sexual orientation is an inherent quality, and more than likely, will have more to do with any higher court's decision vis a vis equal protection than people realize.
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508
| DAR
Wed 6/11/2008 2:00p | <<Most people will disagree with you there. Even I believe some people are born with a tendency toward homosexuality.>>
Josh you'll notice I said I was playing devil's advocate. Of course I don't believe people choose to be homosexual, especially if you happen to a be a minority or woman.
But I think where problems come is that homosexuality is not entirely visible. They're the only group who have to actually show who they are for people to believe them. The flamboyant for the men or the spiked cut chain on a wallet type for the women stereotypes seems to be the only way for some people in this country to identify a gay individual. |
509
| Dabob2
Wed 6/11/2008 2:26p | <Of course I don't believe people choose to be homosexual, especially if you happen to a be a minority or woman.>
What difference would that make? If you are, you are. You believe some white guys do choose it, but not minorities or women? What sense does that make?
<But I think where problems come is that homosexuality is not entirely visible. They're the only group who have to actually show who they are for people to believe them. The flamboyant for the men or the spiked cut chain on a wallet type for the women stereotypes seems to be the only way for some people in this country to identify a gay individual.>
Where to begin?
There's a lot I could say here, but I won't. Suffice it to say that I don't "come off" as gay to people I just meet and who don't know me. But if I tell them I'm gay, they believe me. |
510
| DAR
Wed 6/11/2008 4:30p | <<There's a lot I could say here, but I won't. Suffice it to say that I don't "come off" as gay to people I just meet and who don't know me. But if I tell them I'm gay, they believe me.>>
You do realize that I don't believe a gay person has to be front and center to show me who they are. I said "some people in this country" that doesn't mean I believe that.
And trust me I certainly know that the stereotypical gay person that is portrayed in popular culture is not really the norm that's out there. I was friends with a woman in college who drop dead gorgeous, talking modelesque, but she was gay. Didn't bother me it's who she was.
So please don't misinterpret what I'm saying it's getting a little annoying. |
