World Events
Topic: Gay Marriage Ban Overturned by CA Supreme Court

#	Author	Message
571	utahjosh Tue 6/24/2008 4:14p	Of course, this is a key component for athiest people who feel like it's their business to tell other people how to belive and what they can and can't know. They first have to be able to demonize or somehow explain why they know better than the person actually experiencing it. (Belief in God) Therefore, believers people have gone from good, wholesome people to somewhat deluded characters who have a warped mind. It's astounding how some people who have not experienced communion with God or a religious experience themselves will tell other people what's going on with them. Rather than simply listening to believers and taking their word and experience for it, they create nonsense explanations.
572	ecdc Tue 6/24/2008 4:16p	>>They were NOT doctrine. They were opinions.<< You can claim this all you want. But if it walks like a duck.... It's pretty tough to claim something wasn't a doctrine when it was taught and believed for over 100 years, Josh. You can't then turn around and go, "psych!" "That thing that Mormons taught and believed for over a century wasn't really a doctrine. It was just an opinion. Our bad!" Of course, this is part of the larger point, Josh. The church has been on the wrong side of a civil rights issue before. It only changed when the culture changed. That's not a coincidence. It is, however, a coincidence that revelations only come in the face of cultural and social changes. A temperance movement sweeps the nation in the early 1830s - voila, the Word of Wisdom appears! The church is disenfranchised and has its property seized after church leaders are jailed for polygamy in the late nineteenth century - voila, the Manifesto is issued. Anti-communist sentiment explodes in the United States following World War II and the advent of the Cold War - voila, church leaders say Communism is evil. Civil rights gains momentum for blacks and the church faces enormous political pressure - voila, the revelation on priesthood. I'm not trying to pick on you Josh. But you have no evidence that bigoted teachings about gays comes from God. I have a myriad of circumstantial evidence that Mormon church revelation and changes and teachings are cultural, not revelatory. This is no different. If you claim that God is making you do something that impedes the rights of others, I'm going to call you on it.
573	ecdc Tue 6/24/2008 4:22p	The problem with your 571 Josh is I'm not telling you to not believe, I'm not telling you that you shouldn't or can't practice your religion. I'm not telling you that you haven't had communion with God. You, however, are trying to tell a gay person what they feel. You're trying to tell them they aren't entitled to the same rights you have. Try as you might, this is indefensible. By your logic, I could claim a revelation from God that you are supposed to give me all your money, and the fact that you haven't experienced it doesn't mean I'm wrong, therefore you should listen to me.
574	DAR Tue 6/24/2008 5:02p	Josh people thought that women shouldn't have the right to vote, we survived that. People thought that blacks were inferior and shouldn't have the same rights as white people, we survived that. As a society we'll certainly survive this.
575	X-san Tue 6/24/2008 5:25p	Hey UtahJosh, if some of your children are gay, what will you do? Are you going to refuse to attend their wedding? Shun them? Tell them their plans to adopt a child are evil and wrong?
576	jdub Tue 6/24/2008 5:40p	That's a good question, what would you do if your children turn out to be gay. Gay children can be born to any parent.
577	SingleParkPassholder Tue 6/24/2008 6:05p	"Of course, this is a key component for athiest people who feel like it's their business to tell other people how to belive and what they can and can't know. They first have to be able to demonize or somehow explain why they know better than the person actually experiencing it. (Belief in God) Therefore, believers people have gone from good, wholesome people to somewhat deluded characters who have a warped mind. It's astounding how some people who have not experienced communion with God or a religious experience themselves will tell other people what's going on with them. Rather than simply listening to believers and taking their word and experience for it, they create nonsense explanations." For your info, I believe in God. That said... Josh, if you feel attacked here it's because you should. You should feel attacked and bad and guilty for trying to promulgate this aspect of your church's belief system onto others who have NOTHING to do with you or your church. What right does your church have to force itself on others? Apply your credo on yourself all you want, but stay away from me and mine. I cited the anecdotal stories earlier to try and personalize it for you. If you don't believe it to be real, or think it's an aberration, think again. I challenge you to go talk to people involved in foster care and adoption in your area to find out what the real world is like for those kids, and what their hopes and dreams are all about, and then objectively apply your church's mandate as it relates to gays and see how it has the effect of crushing these hopes and dreams of these kids and yes, even the gays who are eager to help these kids, either as an adopted parent or a big brother or big sister. The systen needs all the help it can get. What it doesn't need is the policies of the Mormon church to hold it down.
578	DouglasDubh Tue 6/24/2008 6:21p	<Yes, it is. It's quite a lot like that.> Anyone reading the articles will see that it is not. <Of course I did. Many of us did, and responded to specific points. Because we don't agree with them or can easily point out their logical flaws doesn't mean we didn't read them.> If you had actually read and understood them, you wouldn't be claiming that they are based on a discredited study. <Let's review: you said I "couldn't" show any stats about MA showing a lack of negative effect on MA due to gay marriage.> No, I specifically mentioned two stats that would show whether there had been a negative effect on MA. You provided neither. <That's a hard fact.> It's also inconclusive.
579	SingleParkPassholder Tue 6/24/2008 6:21p	Even though it isn't surprising at all, given the source, the fact a church, supposedly an entity that purports to love and embrace everyone, would declare war on an entire class of people because it doesn't approve of that class's biological functions and tendencies, something no member of the class can do anything about, is mind boggling. And a church that is often persecuted itself for the way it conducts its own business, but stubbornly stands by it as the one "truth", would in turn itself go all out to persecute this class of people for living out their own "truth", is hypocritical in the extreme. Be very proud, josh.
580	ecdc Tue 6/24/2008 6:23p	>>What right does your church have to force itself on others? Apply your credo on yourself all you want, but stay away from me and mine.<< The real irony? The Mormon church went through this when they practiced polygamy in the 19th century. Laws were passed, their leaders were imprisoned, their property was confiscated, and their rights were stripped away from them. I'm not implying that gay marriage and polygamy are the same thing. But there's plenty of parallels there, and the hypocrisy is rank. Josh will tell us that what the federal government did to the Mormons in the 19th century was wrong, but that what people are doing today against gay marriage is right, all under the guise of claiming to know what God wants.

All times are Pacific Time (US)

Note: Information on the discussion boards is sometimes based on rumors or incorrect information and should not be assumed true. Messages do not necessarily reflect the opinion of LaughingPlace.com or its editors.

More messages:	1-10	11-20	21-30	31-40	41-50
	51-60	61-70	71-80	81-90	91-100
	101-110	111-120	121-130	131-140	141-150
	151-160	161-170	171-180	181-190	191-200
	201-210	211-220	221-230	231-240	241-250
	251-260	261-270	271-280	281-290	291-300
	301-310	311-320	321-330	331-340	341-350
	351-360	361-370	371-380	381-390	391-400
	401-410	411-420	421-430	431-440	441-450
	451-460	461-470	471-480	481-490	491-500
	501-510	511-520	521-530	531-540	541-550
	551-560	561-570	571-580	581-590	591-600
	601-610	611-620

< Previous Topic

Next Topic >

You must be a registered user to post messages.
Click here to register.
After registration you will automatically be brought back to this topic

Laughing Place Podcast
This week the crew discuss the post-summer happenings at Disneyland, Disney Channel's early days and keeping Disney parks unchanged plus the return of Doobekah's Adventures, another Freak-y email from Brent, reader mail on Celebrity sightings, the Captains Challenge and more.

What's on
The Latest
A Wave of Enhancements In-Store for the Disney Magic Cruise Ship as it Heads Into Dry Dock in September 2008
Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures Invites Fans of “High School Musical 3: Senior Year” to Exclusive Red-Carpet Premiere Oct 16
Calling All Walt Disney World Vacation ‘Know-It-Alls’: The Mouse Searching for 16 Parents for 2009 Moms Panel
Sara Lee Dances with Disney's 'High School Musical 3: Senior Year' in Extensive Film-Driven Campaign
The Little Mermaid: Ariel's Beginning premiere pictures added to LP Lotion
The Haunted Halloween returns to Hong Kong Disneyland
It’s a “Suite Life” on the Disney Wonder with Disney Channel World-Premiere Event
Miss America 2009 contestants visit the Magic Kingdom
Halloween, Disneyland Resort Paris Style! Oct 4 - Nov 2
Meet Santa this Christmas at Disneyland Resort Paris Nov 6 - Jan 9

Click here for The Latest