DCA, Future Expansion
Topic: Is DCA worst theme park created over past 50 years

#	Author	Message
101	Spirit of 74 Sat 5/31/2008 8:33p	>>I easily prefer the lineup of attractions at DSP to the Park Formerly Known as the Disney-MGM Studios.<< <<Boy, I couldn't disagree with you more.>> That's OK. No rule says you have to agree with me (but I'd like to see if Doobie would mind putting one in!) ;-) <<I think Star Tours and the Great Movie Ride alone are enough to win that battle.>> If it were 1990, I'd agree. In 2008, Star Tours is beyond tired and GMR hasn't aged well either, although it could easily be plussed back into a great ride. <<We don't even have to get into the superior version of RnRC and TOT that are at the Florida park.>> Well, I just totally disagree about RnRC. I think it's a whole lot better ride in Paris. Smoother and with cool fog and lighting effects instead of painted tacky plywood. ToT, even without riding in Paris, I'll give you since FLA's version is spectacular. <<Ambience is very important to me and in that respect DHS distroys WDSP.>> If this were a decade ago, I might agree. That big ass hat just ruins everything for me. It WalMarts the park and is going nowhere. But ... OK, I'll still give it to you. Overall, better ambience in FLA. <<But this is a topic for another thread.>> Nah. Here is as good as anywhere else. <<I acatually think DCA is better than both WDSP and DHS.>> I actually agree 100%!
102	oc_dean Mon 6/2/2008 1:07a	>>Everything was levels of flatness. << Get LPer in here, dennis-in-ct ... He'll have "plenty" to say about how awful WDSP was designed. Of all his observations he told me ... One that sticks out to me ... Is the very lack of terracing/multi-leveling throughout the park. It's as if they planted all those attractions on ONE solid level .. straight across. Like planting buildings on a parking lot. And for as much as I lambast DCA ... There's where DCA has WDSP beat! Around the Warf, Grizzly River Rapids, the lake area on all sides of Paradise Pier .. there's lots of "terracing" ... with water ways, bridges, etc.
103	davewasbaloo Mon 6/2/2008 1:18a	Other than Tower of Terror, there is no terracing I can recall at DHS either. Beside Hollywood Bvd, SUnset Bvd and Echo Lake, there are few picturesque places in DHS either. Given the initial budgets WDSP had, they did a terrific job. Also, remember the European demogaphic have very different expectations too. I keep saying this, there are a number of Europeans who prefer WDSP - and the park was built for a Euro audience, not an American tourist one. I would have personally loved something of TDS quality, but frankly it would have been lost on the European audience. Weird, I know.
104	oc_dean Mon 6/2/2008 1:32a	>>I keep saying this, there are a number of Europeans who prefer WDSP - and the park was built for a Euro audience, not an American tourist one. << I'd like to know if those very Europeans have actually been to DL in Anaheim, TDR, or WDW .. and have actually seen the difference for themselves. And as Europe is so rich in it's history of cultures ... in areas of architecture, art, etc .... I don't know how anyone in their right mind could consider WDSP a "good" park - Against something like DisneySea!
105	davewasbaloo Mon 6/2/2008 2:26a	>>>And as Europe is so rich in it's history of cultures ... in areas of architecture, art, etc .... I don't know how anyone in their right mind could consider WDSP a "good" park - Against something like DisneySea!<<< Probably because so many Europeans actually view Disney/Vegas attempts at theming to be fake, and some of them like the real feel of the WDSP. Also, because there are so many well manicured parks that are free, sadly most Europeans are interested in the shows and attractions (where I do not think anyone could dispute that WDSP really worked hard on this with a number of original attractions or plussed over the Florida counterparts.
106	davewasbaloo Mon 6/2/2008 2:27a	Also given that DLP is probably the most beautiful magic kingdom style park Disney has created (certainly in my opinion). I do not think they have to go to WDW, DL or TDL to make an informed decision when they say they prefer WDSP to DLP. Do you?
107	X-san Mon 6/2/2008 3:45a	***I would have personally loved something of TDS quality, but frankly it would have been lost on the European audience.*** That's a HUGE assumption, one we often hear along with the "well, if that Tokyo Winnie the Pooh ride was built anyplace else noone would care", another ridiculous take as far as I'm concerned. People do like quality, people appreciate it, people love spectacular stuff, people flock to new and impressive stuff... I'd be we could've made some sort of half-assed argument back in 1980 about how Epcot would NEVER appeal to an American audience because hey, who the heck wants to have an amusement park full of educational attractions and a bunch of country pavilions which are all about shopping and dining, with no rides whatsoever. Sorry, but I just do not buy into this argument, though it is an EASY one to make since we'll never see a DisneySea or a Pooh's Hunny Hunt outside of Tokyo so it's oh so easy to say "well, the Japanese like it but it wouldn't work anyplace else". I call shenanigans on that one. It's total BS. ;) And for one to argue that Europeans happen to like Disney Studios (what's the attendance like there? didn't they have to run tons of "get into EuroDisneyland after 5 deals and all that stuff too?), I'm sure plenty of people like 6 flags just fine too. And how many incredible theme parks does Europe boast anyway? Not that many. In either case, it doesn't mean it's up to snuff for a Disney park. I prefer mine inspirational and spectacular thanks.
108	X-san Mon 6/2/2008 4:04a	***Probably because so many Europeans actually view Disney/Vegas attempts at theming to be fake*** So many Americans (and Asians, and others) feel that way as well. Funny though, the fact that the original EuroDisneyland park is still the most popular tourist attraction in Europe (is it not?). ***Given the initial budgets WDSP had, they did a terrific job.*** This just bugs me. When something really *is* "terrific", you never hear anyone mention the budget (unless it is to praise the fact that lots of money went into it...that, or not at all). Check this out..."they did a terrific job on Disneyland", "they did a terrific job on Epcot", "they did a terrific job on EuroDisneyland", "they did a terrific job on Animal Kingdom", "they did a terrific job on DisneySea". Notice how there was no need to mention "given the initial budgets..." in ANY of those cases. It's either terrific, or it isn't. In the field of entertainment, it really is that black and white. ***Also, remember the European demogaphic have very different expectations too. I keep saying this, there are a number of Europeans who prefer WDSP - and the park was built for a Euro audience, not an American tourist one.*** I'm really not sure if I really believe this at all. We've talked about the same things over in the Hong Kong threads, how they decided to bag both Frontierland AND Toontown because "the surveys said they wouldn't work" or "the Chinese really don't understand the Disney characters". Interestingly they didn't add anything ELSE in place of those "unwanted lands", but that's another story. I'm forced to wonder if Walt Disney would've abandoned his crazy project in the first place if he'd paid attention to so many "demographic polls" and opinions (which are like, we all know, right?) and come to the conclusion that Europe (I mean, America) really wouldn't like a DisneySea (er, Disneyland) at all. So he instead he built a barren little studios tour on the lot and called it a day. Thank goodness he didn't. :)
109	davewasbaloo Mon 6/2/2008 4:27a	Ok, a few points here. First of all, whn I see people using the amazing Skull rock and the like as a toilet, or rushing past the theming to hop in line for the thrills. Or that most of the European boards go on and on about the coasters and rubber heads (skipping over are slating things like Phantom Manor), I think it shows a different mindset. Add in that I am not referring to focus groups, I am referring to trip advisor reports, and feedbacks from numerous colleagues and family members. I do wish WDSP had more charm (it's getting it), I was angered at the lack of AA's (still can only see them if you go on Crush Coaster - which my kids are too small to ride), I wish there was a decent table service restaurant there too. But, I would still rather spend a day at WDSP than the MK. Why? Because the attractions and entertainment are more interesting to me. And then we have one of the most awesome parks next door. Given that DLP has nearly been closed down on a fair few occasions, and the park had to be built to save the land, well this park is a decent start. And with the exception of the loss of the Great Movie Ride and the Sci Fi Dine In (as well as a little lake), it is actually better than the concept art for the original Disney MGM Studios Paris. WDSP is a park that needs time to be appreciated properly. It is subtle. Most people that dis the place have a) never been or b) missed the star attractions - Cinemagique and Moteurs Action.
110	X-san Mon 6/2/2008 5:30a	***rushing past the theming to hop in line for the thrills*** Not distinctive to Europeans at all. ***Or that most of the European boards go on and on about the coasters and rubber heads (skipping over are slating things like Phantom Manor)*** Not distinctive to Europeans at all. ***whn I see people using the amazing Skull rock and the like as a toilet*** Ewe. Gross. Not distinctive to anyone except gross people, I'd say. ***I am referring to trip advisor reports, and feedbacks from numerous colleagues and family members.*** Fair enough. But in fairness to that comment, I've got to mention that my family one and all thought Animal Kingdom was totally lame and boring, and just about every East Coaster I've ever talked to says Disneyland is small and old and "not worth it". So what? ***Because the attractions and entertainment are more interesting to me.*** That's fair. You're entitled to your opinion, of course. Glad you like the place! ***And then we have one of the most awesome parks next door.*** That's *not* fair. It's irrelevant to the argument about how crappy the park is or isn't. Look, everyone pretty much knows that Paris has the best version of the castle park. There, or Anaheim...take your pic. After that comes all the rest, with Orlando in last place in most peoples' opinions (except mine, I think Hong Kong is worse than WDSP frankly). So, that's great. But it's not any sort of a justification for a crappy park next door. Any more than it is in Anaheim. ***Given that DLP has nearly been closed down on a fair few occasions, and the park had to be built to save the land, well this park is a decent start.*** More excuses. I don't pay my hard earned dollars on "a decent start" thanks very much. I expect a lot more. ***And with the exception of the loss of the Great Movie Ride and the Sci Fi Dine In (as well as a little lake), it is actually better than the concept art for the original Disney MGM Studios Paris.*** A whole lot of justification in just a few words, bro. ***WDSP is a park that needs time to be appreciated properly. It is subtle. Most people that dis the place have a) never been or b) missed the star attractions - Cinemagique and Moteurs Action.*** I don't buy this one. DisneySea, in many ways, is subtle. It takes time to enjoy and explore and appreciate. WDSP is just a small, cheap place with a few decent attractions. All that and I'll STILL grant you that Cinemagique and Moteurs Action are absolutely the greatest theme park experiences in the history of planet earth (if you say so) and still feel the same way. ;)

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