Tokyo Disneyland
Topic: Could Monsters spell doom for Buzz

#	Author	Message
41	X-san Sat 5/31/2008 6:59a	***Plus I can't forgive the volcano behind Cape Cod Cookout. :-)*** Since you speak Japanese, I'm sure you are familiar with the word "shoganai". ;)
42	leemac Sat 5/31/2008 7:20a	^^ We use it a lot. :-p
43	SuperDry Sat 5/31/2008 1:11p	<<< Plus I can't forgive the volcano behind Cape Cod Cookout. :-) >>> What are you talking about? There's no volcano behind Cape Cod - it's a nearby hill. Check out these two views, the first one from the harbor (flickr/Yahoo login required - sorry): http://tinyurl.com/44hcr4 It's clearly a volcano from that angle. But, the Imagineers realized that it would be visible from many other areas of the park. Why would there be a large volcano behind Cape Cod? Well, look what they did: http://tinyurl.com/3k23v9 It doesn't look so much like a volcano from this angle. You can see the edge of the volcano styling in the upper right portion, but for the most part, it looks like it might just be a small hill behind the town. If you were to be in the park and move further to the left and look at it, you wouldn't see any of the volcano details and it totally looks just like a nearby hill. Notice the use of forced perspective: from the volcano angle, it looks massive and distant, with no large individual features. But from the hill side of it, the large boulders and vegetation make it look close. This is even more pronounced if you switch the above photos to Original size. Well done, Imagineering! So leemac, there's nothing to forgive them about - they cut you off at the pass :-)
44	TDR_Fan Sat 5/31/2008 1:50p	Beat me to it, SuperDry! I completely agree with your statement that Mount Prometheus looks nothing like a volcano from Cape Cod. I think Lee was only joking ;).
45	leemac Sat 5/31/2008 2:11p	<<I think Lee was only joking ;).>> I wasn't actually. It isn't just the volcano itself. It is the close proximity to the restaurant. It looms large directly above it and is very steep. It looks other-worldly - it doesn't look like a hill to me. The original plan called for the land to rise another 20 feet or so to Cape Cod with the buildings closer to Port Discovery (ie. not directly in front of Prometheus). However OLC nixed it as they didn't want guests to have views of Tokyo Bay (which they still do in that area). Ultimately the choice of Cape Cod doesn't work. The highest point on the peninsula is Pine Hill I believe - which is all of about 300 feet and a gentle hillock. There is nothing as rocky and steep-sided as Prometheus. I never understood why there needed to be such a large bay in that area. Moving it out closer to the seawall more would have meant that the volcano could have been better hidden. Small points but that area vexes me more than any other (scratch that - seeing the Official Hotels behind Indy and Raging Spirits is worse). Now I'm sure disneywatcher will pop up and remind me of DCA's failings. :-)
46	Roger55 Sat 5/31/2008 2:46p	Thanks SD and Lee for addressing the "GPS" question. I am familiar with GPS systems through my work, so I knew that they could not be using GPS for the TDR attractions. Clearing up the misinformation is always a good thing. I can see why someone would have some issues with TDS. No park is perfect. However, I am not as down on TDS as much as Lee is. I agree about 20K, I just don't get it. Sindbad was a mistake from the begining, not on execution so much, but just not appealing to the customer base. JTCOTE is a great ride, from queue through the entire ride. Sure things could have been plussed up, but what ride couldn't use some plussing up? There are very few IMO. I love Magic Lamp Theater. I can see that the experience isn't as good for those who don't understand Japanese. One of these days I want to take my own key to the show and when he is looking for the key to the genie chest at the begining of the show, I'll pull it out and say "I FOUND IT!" LOL Storm Rider is a good motion based simulator for the Japanese Guest who for the most part have not been to DLR or WDW. I agree that the story is a bit lame. Regarding Cape Cod and some of the other "trasitions" in the park, well all I can say is I have learned to accept them. Just as I have learned to accept seeing the Matterhorn from Main Street USA. JMO
47	Spirit of 74 Sat 5/31/2008 2:53p	<<However the big argument is that OLC totally missed the opportunity to provide guests what they wanted - another cute fantasy park a la TDL. TDS just doesn't resonate with the guests in the same way that TDL does.>> I'm sure having not made it there yet, you're right Lee. But does any second, third or fourth gate resonate with most guests as much as the MK-style first gate? I know you, like myself, love EPCOT and DAK, but do you honestly believe most visitors (especially the first-timers and newbies) would ever skip MK to spend time in one? I hear stories of even people who have been to Disney a dozen times and when they come to Orlando, if they decide to go see a shuttle launch (like the one I just missed somehow from my backyard) or visit Sea World for a day and/or Universal for a day, inevitably they'll skip DAK ... or EPCOT or The Park Formerly Known as The Disney-MGM Studios ... not go to the MK? Never. This is simply the way of Disney. When people think about going to a Disney park the vast majority aren't thinking of DAK, DCA, DSP or TDS. That's why I think it's very unfair to compare attendance (again, knowing that Disney plays games with its numbers) between parks as some measure of their quality. DAK, right now, is by far the best WDW has to offer. Do you think folks plan trips around visiting it? Nah, it's all about walking the outlet mall that is Main Street, seeing the cartoon attractions like Buzz and Stitch in Tomorrowland, while waiting to ride the decrepit Space Mountain, getting the gals a makeover at the Jon-Benet Boutique, followed by dinner with Pooh at the Crystal Palace etc ... that's THE Disney experience to many. It's unfortunate that they miss entirely or don't stop and appreciate that Disney's best simply is elsewhere. I'll be thrilled if, when I get to Tokyo later this year, TDS has half the crowds of TDL. Because while I'm sure I'll love another MK. Especially one where cleanliness, show quality and entertainment still matter a lot ... I'll gladly take just one ride on Space Mountain or maybe miss Peter Pan entirely so I can take in all the atmosphere and detail that TDS has to offer. If people all want cartoon characters and foamheads shows, I'll be more than happy to wait in shorter lines for everything else.
48	Spirit of 74 Sat 5/31/2008 2:55p	<<Plus I can't forgive the volcano behind Cape Cod Cookout. :-)>> Can you forgive the Swan, Dolphin and ToT popping up outside of Epcot? Or the hanger-like Soarin theater buildings from the inside? What about the giant pinshack (since we know Disney isn't building a DVC tower at the Contemporay) on Bay Lake?
49	leemac Sat 5/31/2008 3:04p	<<I love Magic Lamp Theater.>> I totally understand the show - and it is great to see human interaction with a 3D show - I just wish they had done more with the storyline. It doesn't really fit all that great into Arabian Coast anyhow. For me it is all about the pre-show which is pure genius. And an incredible AA (the first with projection eyes if I recall). Journey really bugs me. Incredible queue and ride vehicles. I just don't like the scenic execution. Plus the thrill is too short for me. Not enough eye candy on the ride itself IMHO.
50	leemac Sat 5/31/2008 3:07p	<<But does any second, third or fourth gate resonate with most guests as much as the MK-style first gate? I know you, like myself, love EPCOT and DAK, but do you honestly believe most visitors (especially the first-timers and newbies) would ever skip MK to spend time in one?>> The point is that TDS was designed for the local market which still make up the majority of guests. The WDW argument of subsequent gates just doesn't work in a guest environment where they know the product so well. It should have resonated with the audience better. I never got why ToT was greenlighted at all. It is even further from the average guest demographic which is why it is often a walk-on these days. A terrible shame. And a waste of $250m. <<Especially one where cleanliness, show quality and entertainment still matter a lot >> Seriously have you seen any of the entertainment???? Personally I'd rather have two empty theaters at TDL (waiting for new shows) than what is currently presented - Minnie O Minnie and One Man's Dream II are travesties.

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