| # | Author | Message |
51
| leemac
Sat 5/31/2008 3:09p | <<Or the hanger-like Soarin theater buildings from the inside?>>
No - but we aren't talking about an immersive theme park. Epcot's World Showcase is comprised of individual vignettes - you can always see other countries. TDS was meant to feature seamlessly contained land. It worked for the most part but failed in Cape Cod IMHO. |
52
| Spirit of 74
Sat 5/31/2008 3:20p | <<The point is that TDS was designed for the local market which still make up the majority of guests. The WDW argument of subsequent gates just doesn't work in a guest environment where they know the product so well. It should have resonated with the audience better.>>
That may well be true.
To what extent, though, I sure don't know. They certainly put plenty of bodies in that park compared to any other second gate by far.
Did they expect TDL-type crowds? More so? I doubt they did and if so, I can't say that was realistic on their part.
<<I never got why ToT was greenlighted at all. It is even further from the average guest demographic which is why it is often a walk-on these days. A terrible shame. And a waste of $250m.>>
I've never seen a legit wait of more than 15-20 minutes for ToT at DCA either. Is it a waste there? How's it doing at DSP?
I ride it at every resort I frequent, but maybe dropping it into every resort wasn't the smartest decision?
<<Especially one where cleanliness, show quality and entertainment still matter a lot >>
<<Seriously have you seen any of the entertainment???? Personally I'd rather have two empty theaters at TDL (waiting for new shows) than what is currently presented - Minnie O Minnie and One Man's Dream II are travesties. >>
You know I haven't in person and I'm not big on watching DVDs of theme park shows, so no. I doubt I'll be running to see either when I get to TDL, but I'll let you know.
But I was referring to entertainment on a larger scale. I am quite sure Jubilation and Dreamlights blow away Florida's parades. |
53
| Spirit of 74
Sat 5/31/2008 3:24p | <<Personally I'd rather have two empty theaters at TDL (waiting for new shows)>>
Then the MK is perfect for you.
You can walk by the always empty Tomorrowland Theater, which should have one or two shows year round ... and the head over to the Diamond Horseshoe, where if it is really busy they'll open it up and serve pre-packaged food (I don't think any veggie offerings, though, so you'll just have to drink!), since they killed that years ago -- despite it being very popular to the end -- to save on paying real entertainers with union contracts.
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54
| Spirit of 74
Sat 5/31/2008 3:28p | <<No - but we aren't talking about an immersive theme park. Epcot's World Showcase is comprised of individual vignettes - you can always see other countries>>
Ah my friend, other countries are fine ... that was always the intent of the designers.
But giant modern buildings with funky fish and fowl? OK ... not your point.
Fine ... Soarin ... still sticks out like a sore thumb from behind Canada ... and they made no attempts whatsoever to hide it at all.
It's one thing for countries to be visible from each other, but Soarin is simply an intrusion because it doesn't fit with any existing architectural style ... it's just two giant theater buildings. |
55
| leemac
Sat 5/31/2008 4:12p | <<They certainly put plenty of bodies in that park compared to any other second gate by far.>>
Like most I don't buy the attendance numbers for TDS - I'm still convinced that Epcot is a more visited park as a second gate. I know how OLC calculates the attendance numbers for both parks (and it is not the same measures as the other four resorts) but I still can't fathom how that works out. |
56
| leemac
Sat 5/31/2008 4:17p | <<I've never seen a legit wait of more than 15-20 minutes for ToT at DCA either. Is it a waste there? How's it doing at DSP?>>
I have - and I'm probably at DCA more often that you (especially these days.... :-p).
That isn't the point though as it serves a completely different purpose in those two parks. It has been very successful at WDSP - but European audiences tend to be bigger on thrills and it balances the family-orientated offerings like Toon Studio, Stitch Live! and the upcoming Playhouse Disney (which is being installed). DCA was about capacity - plain and simple. They needed a big ride to get in there as quickly as possible. TOT fit the bill.
TDS didn't need to have Tower. There were a host of other American Waterfront attractions that were thrown to the wolves that would have been more appealing. TOT just doesn't appeal to the local guests - even after they toned down the ride profile. There has even been talk of adding a non-thrill ride in one of the shafts to give guests the opportunity to experience all of the attraction (and the view of the park) without the drop profile. It is an incredibly impressive piece of art - the ride profile just sucks. |
57
| leemac
Sat 5/31/2008 4:20p | <<I ride it at every resort I frequent, but maybe dropping it into every resort wasn't the smartest decision?>>
You know I disagree with you on the duplication front - but the attraction needs to meet either a programming/menu need or a demographic need. TOT fits both for WDSP but neither for TDS. I think it would be a great addition to Adventureland at HKDL too if it was tweaked for the land. I think it would meet both criteria there too. |
58
| leemac
Sat 5/31/2008 4:23p | <<I don't think any veggie offerings, though, so you'll just have to drink!>>
Sadly you can't "drink" in MK. Hence why I spend less time there than any other of the eleven parks. And boy do you need a drink when dealing with those crowds. :-)
Anyhow - interesting debate. Unfortunately I won't be able to partake for the next few weeks as I'm traveling a lot with work. |
59
| X-san
Sat 5/31/2008 6:37p | ***It should have resonated with the audience better.
I never got why ToT was greenlighted at all. It is even further from the average guest demographic
Minnie O Minnie and One Man's Dream II are travesties.***
And yet those two shows play to packed houses daily, don't they?
On the one hand, you're complaining about what OLC didn't do to appeal to the guest demographic, but on the other you're slamming two shows that were obviously designed to target those same folks.
Damned if they do, damned if they don't it seems.
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60
| Spirit of 74
Sat 5/31/2008 7:48p | <<Like most I don't buy the attendance numbers for TDS - I'm still convinced that Epcot is a more visited park as a second gate. I know how OLC calculates the attendance numbers for both parks (and it is not the same measures as the other four resorts) but I still can't fathom how that works out. >>
You could be right again ... I dunno ... I have no clue how OLC calculates its numbers.
I do have some insight into how WDW does, which is why I can pretty safely say two things: the MK numbers are always padded upward ... and while DAK numbers are growing at a very healthy pace, the drop at The Park Formerly Known as The Disney-MGM Studios is a lot worse than meets the eye and doesn't bode well for the future unless they get some of those 'planned projects' moving.
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