World Events
Topic: All about Mormons...part ??

#	Author	Message
21	mele Fri 5/30/2008 4:40p	<<See also: Jackson, Michael Aiken, Clay>> Ha!
22	X-san Fri 5/30/2008 6:08p	Interesting discussion, guys. Thanks for all the input! ***We absolutly believe, and teach frequently, that we are spirit children of God, and lived with him in heaven.*** So, do Mormons believe in Angels too? If so, how do they differ from these "spirit children" or is it the same concept? ***The Immaculate Conception is a unique Catholic doctrine that teaches that Mary herself was immaculately conceived.*** Wow. First I heard this one. Should've paid more attention in CCD class I guess. :p
23	Elderp Fri 5/30/2008 6:24p	"So, do Mormons believe in Angels too? If so, how do they differ from these "spirit children" or is it the same concept?" We do believe in angels. Basically Angels here on earth are either spirits that were here or will be here. Main difference is we don't believe in wings. http://scriptures.lds.org/bd/a/84 What is more interesting to me is Cherubims. I have no idea what they are but the according to the scriptures we know: 1) They must be important because they are always guarding important things. 2) They do have wings. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/s...=checked I am not sure I would want to run into one but they sound interesting.
24	mele Fri 5/30/2008 6:40p	This is sorta off topic, Elderp, but I figured I might as well ask here. You've said that using the word "mormon" to describe you is kind of derogatory. What is the proper term, then...LDS? Is it okay to shorten Latter Day Saint to DLS? Is that disrespectful, too? I don't want to be offensive. (Not that people couldn't argue that I am quite offensive all of the time. LOL)
25	Elderp Fri 5/30/2008 6:50p	The official name is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, but you'll only hear members use that if they are speaking formally. Most members will take Mormon, but you'll get more respect if you use LDS. I prefer LDS. For the most part I try not to be too fickle about it. I have often told people I am LDS only to have to say Mormon, and if that doesn't work I start talking about the white shirt guys with the black tags (that always works).
26	DVC_dad Fri 5/30/2008 8:42p	I have seen the Godmakers more than once. I am very indifferent about it. It reminds me of Michael Moore meets Francis Ford Coppola. Okay that may be overstating it, but still, Godmakers is a total "meh." With or without the Godmakers, which I agree is a shock film, still the two level best claims of the LDS are: 1.) We are the one true church. 2.) We are Christians too. These two claims really at the core are better stated this way: 1.) We are the only church. 2.) We are the only Christians. Now this could certainly be the case. However, a far greater number of people who claim that they are Christians, (and that the LDS are not) exist today. Does this mean that the LDS cannot be right? Of course not. It means that the LDS are far better marketers...or are they? One thing that I find VERY interesting about the LDS is that historically, the church has been very good at getting people off the sofa and into church, however, keeping them in church is a very big and growing problem. In fact in very recent years the Jahova's Witness seems to even be doing a better job at luring folks in. http://www.sltrib.com/lds/ci_2890645 <<<According to LDS-published statistics, the annual number of LDS converts declined from a high of 321,385 in 1996 to 241,239 in 2004. In the 1990s, the church's growth rate went from 5 percent a year to 3 percent. By comparison, the Seventh-day Adventist Church reports it has added more than 900,000 adult converts each year since 2000 (an average growth of about 5 percent), bringing the total membership to 14.3 million. The Assemblies of God now claims more than 50 million members worldwide, adding 10,000 new members every day. >>> <<<When the Graduate Center of the City University of New York conducted an American Religious Identification Survey in 2001, it discovered that about the same number of people said they had joined the LDS Church as said they had left it. >>> <<<The LDS message has found a ready audience in Latin America and the South Pacific, where Mormon missionaries can tell people God did not neglect them. The Book of Mormon is the story of a Hebrew family that migrated from Jerusalem to the New World and tells of a visit to their descendants by Jesus Christ after his resurrection. >>> The LDS is so "American" it has a bit of a problem when exported to say Asia or Russia. To me, this is a problem that the one true church shouldn't have. Personally I just cannot get past the "one true church" claim, and the entire belief system of the LDS is based upon it. There is so much apostacy in the LDS now (IMHO of course) and the "he said, she said" nature of the doctrine is so garbled, it just doesn't fly. The pretense of the modern day profit is a good thing strategically, but not so much practically. It gives the LDS a justified way to make changes, even in the Book of Mormon itself. Again, the one true church, that didn't get things compeltely right the first time? That is the exact claim against the Christians that were here prior to 1830, when the brave 24 year old fellow first decided that he was right and the rest of the Christians on Earth were suddenly wrong. Take this very topic for example... You have long time LDS members here basically saying that they aren't even sure what the real church doctrine is. As a foot note, ecdc, I'd like to say, on most all of your posts, you seem so unbiased and logical. You are like a breath of fresh air no matter if I agree with you or not. I love your "It is what it is, let's get the facts straight" approach. Lastly, please do not think that I mean to tear down or offend anyone here. I just wanted to state my own observations as realated to The Godmakers.
27	DVC_dad Fri 5/30/2008 8:46p	And for the record, there are far more illogical claims made by say any given American Protestant Church. I suppose it is up to each individual to decide for themselves what they accept as truth, or their personal best fit of such.
28	fkurucz Fri 5/30/2008 11:00p	<<Wow. First I heard this one. Should've paid more attention in CCD class I guess>> You must have been asleep at the wheel: http://www.newadvent.org/cathe...674d.htm
29	Elderp Sat 5/31/2008 4:18a	I agree that the conversion rates are dropping but this has kind of been calculated by the church. The church was having a problem in Latin America where conversion rates were so high that there was a serious drain on experienced leadership. When I was in Argentina we would have Bishops who had only been a member 7 yrs. 7yrs sounds like a long time but for a Bishop it really isn't. Therefore the church has progressively increased standards for convert baptism and leadership. It used to be new members only had to go to church once and there were 6 discussions by the missionaries. Well, if you do the math that could be done theoretically in a week. Now with the new "Preach My Gospel" book the gospel is taught over a longer period. There is also a suggested guideline of members coming to church 3 times before being able to be baptized, but even then it is usually now longer than that. The church doesn't really worry a lot about new conversion rates. The thing that is discussed more in council meetings is retention. Currently the church is at about 40% active worldwide. By active I mean after one year of membership they attend at least 1 sunday per month.
30	X-san Sat 5/31/2008 6:54a	***<<Wow. First I heard this one. Should've paid more attention in CCD class I guess>> You must have been asleep at the wheel:*** I'm confused now. I was indoctrinated into the concept that Mary was born "free of original sin"...that much I understand. But I always thought the "immaculate conception" referred to her bearing jesus without having sex. Am I reading that her mother, also, bore HER without having sex? (who is Mary's mother, anyway?) And if so, I guess the original sin is (big surprise), sex? That strikes me as pretty funny. I dunno why. There are so many more bad, evil and horrible human beings can do besides having sex. In fact, that's one of the better things in general. ;) Why is sex always the original church "whipping boy" (or girl lol)?

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