All Other Disney Destinations
Topic: Shainghai Disneyland 2012

#	Author	Message
11	Spirit of 74 Tue 7/15/2008 7:47p	Unless it's Disney's Real Best Kept Secret, I think this is just waaaaaay off ... I'll talk to some folks in China next week and see what I hear there. I'm wondering what Leemac has to say about this ... I know in the past he has said what I have about Disney not going to Shanghai. I know WDI has been very quiet on leaks of late ... and that a lot of key folks seem to be working on things that are being kept quiet compared to the past. But I also know Disney has had quite the contentious relationship with the government and one would think if there was a time for an announcement, it would be pre, or even at the Games ... not in Sept. After all, the eyes of the world will be on Beijing in August ... why would you wait for them to leave to announce anything?
12	Britain Tue 7/15/2008 9:35p	Shallow and banal? Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, the westward ho-manifest destiny-American history version of Frontierland has very little resonance with the Chinese people? Beyond little resonance, it might even be seen with hostility by communist China.
13	trekkeruss Tue 7/15/2008 9:54p	<<Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, the westward ho-manifest destiny-American history version of Frontierland has very little resonance with the Chinese people?>> You're missing my point. It doesn't have to be a Frontierland like DL's.... it could be a Chinese version. What I find weak is the idea that they're supposedly building a park that is basically all-toons. I guess if Disney's sole objective is to sell the stuff that they are already making in China, then filling the park with Buzz, Woody, Nemo, and Wall-E is maybe a good move.
14	Malin Wed 7/16/2008 2:14a	<<< Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, the westward ho-manifest destiny-American history version of Frontierland has very little resonance with the Chinese people? >>> Why ask Disney to build the park in the first place than. If you want a park based on Chinese folklore, why not build it yourself. Frontierland's in Paris and Tokyo(Westernland) get by just fine, and I would see no problem in it working here. Disney is about visiting and exploring new lands that you can't find else where, its what makes the park so unique. Lets just theme the entire park on Mulan and be done with it.
15	Malin Wed 7/16/2008 2:21a	<<< Unless it's Disney's Real Best Kept Secret, I think this is just waaaaaay off ... I'll talk to some folks in China next week and see what I hear there. >>> I have to second that Jim Hill isn't an incredible source to begin with, but on the other hand I don't think promoting Bill Ernest to President and Managing Director of Asia, should be over looked here either.
16	Britain Thu 7/17/2008 8:23a	Wha? Mulan? Chinese folklore? No, my point is that if they do do a Frontierland in a communist country like China, they should play down the realistic/history aspects to it (patriotic pioneers, etc) and play up the rootin' tootin' cowboys & indians aspect to it. Frankly, it should be more like the Frontierland in Paris than anything else. Little mining town in a valley of red rocks, complete with a haunted house. In this setting, a Woody's Round-Up attraction would fit better than in the U.S. park's Frontierland.
17	trekkeruss Thu 7/17/2008 12:41p	Spirit's point aside, what I am down about is the idea that characters seem to be driving the lands, and not the other way around. I guess I understand that my view of how a DL park should be is perhaps myopic; since the Chinese perhaps have no reference point about Disney at all, then my view isn't necessarily the "correct" one. maybe for it to be successful it has to be about characters and less about themed lands. They're not going to have a Walt Disney on TV feeding them the wonders of a still-to-open park, after all. <<No, my point is that if they do do a Frontierland in a communist country like China, they should play down the realistic/history aspects to it (patriotic pioneers, etc) and play up the rootin' tootin' cowboys & indians aspect to it.>> Honestly, the original DL FL *was* playing up the rootin' tootin' cowboys and indians aspect of the old west...really, all the lands are idealized visions of the frontier, exotic lands, small town USA, etc. The main thing is that they weren't character or toon driven.
18	Britain Thu 7/17/2008 4:40p	Idealized, sure, but DL's Frontierland has more in common with the Mississippi than the Rio Grande. It's more about Mark Twain than Pecos Bill.
19	Malin Fri 7/18/2008 1:29a	<<< Frankly, it should be more like the Frontierland in Paris than anything else. Little mining town in a valley of red rocks, complete with a haunted house. In this setting, a Woody's Round-Up attraction would fit better than in the U.S. park's Frontierland. >>> But I thought the whole reason for Disney being so keen to build a park in Shanghai was to educate guest in who these characters were. I remember passing by a line for Belle at HKDL back in May and someone asking who she was!
20	Mr X Fri 7/18/2008 5:19a	***In this setting, a Woody's Round-Up attraction would fit better than in the U.S. park's Frontierland.*** I don't see how a 1950's era collectible cowboy doll would fit into ANY Frontierland in a genuine fashion, but maybe that's just me. I just got my picture taken with Jesse recently in Westernland though *sigh*. ***maybe for it to be successful it has to be about characters and less about themed lands*** Perhaps we'll never know. Just like the argument about how DisneySea or TDL's Pooh attraction "wouldn't work" in America, we see the same mindset at work here. Disney really has no IDEA if the concept WOULD work, since they've never tried it in China. They are simply assuming that the alternative is preferable (and their many biased surveys are sure to bolster their views, to be sure). However, examining Disney's record of questionable parks recently (particularly how they "resonate" with patrons, for example at WDSP or HKDL), you have to wonder if they really are all that savvy about what it takes to be "successful" in new markets these days. The new stuff definitely isn't roping in the customers in droves, that's for sure. But DisneySea sure is (maybe it's just those dumb Japanese, who pretty much love anything and pay tons of money to visit whatever park Disney might build or show up in even larger droves for whatever ride Disney might build). Perhaps some would argue that DisneySea isn't going to be able to sustain itself, but for now the proof is in the pudding (the most visited non-magic kingdom theme park in the world, many years in a row, can't argue with that). I'm not saying they should copy-paste the Magic Kingdom everywhere they go (they sure as heck didn't do that in Paris! thank goodness!), but what I AM saying is that cartoonizing the whole place sucks. Just look at HKDL to see the sanitized, cartoonized, "future" of Disney cookie cutter franchised parks. *sigh*

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